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Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

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Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#201

Post by AdrianB1 »

maxdo wrote: post #181
prmoustache wrote: post #41

As a bicycle and old motorcycles user I am gobsmacked that so much people accept that the vehicule they are using is connected or regularly phone home to the manufacturer. I guess if you share all your life on facebook and instagram, why shouldn't you also give away all your errands to any third party. Is there at least a license agreement you are showned at and have to agree to upon delivery? Can you operate those v…

Why would I want so? I want to warm up/cool the car before i get into it, listen for the music without plugging my phone every time , have a decent gps that is free, notify me about traffic, tell me if the charging station i'm going to is busy, alert me if someone is breaking in into my car. Heck I can even check the camera's from my App so I don't need to run if this is false alarm. I can even say something to this…

Imagine you live in Texas, there is a massive power failure that also affects cellular towers and the car you need to use to save your live does not work because it is so smart online, but too dumb or not working at all offline. Then pay extra 10$ for that.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#202

Post by gonzoflip »

beervirus wrote: post #193
gonzoflip wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm, I feel like this reply is making light of other's deaths. I was more talking about the ability to attend a protest. I believe in personal freedom, as well as personal responsibility.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't really understand the connection to some sort of hypothetical situation about protesting in the street. My position is that I want my vehicle to start when I turn the key, and drive to where I take it. I think people are giving up a lot more freedom than what they are actually thinking about when they buy these cars that are able to be remotely controlled or disabled.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#203

Post by mellavora »

izacus wrote: post #169

So at what point will Teslas also start snitching on their own owners and other drivers for driving too fast, being in the wrong place at the time a crime happened and reporting copyrighted music played in the wrong country? Is there already a design doc for that somewhere in Teslas ticketing system?

well, they are planning on offering their own car insurance program.

Funny thing is, the initial sell of Tesla was 'high performance', the kind of driving which tends to encourage high-risk behaviours.

so now it is "you can buy this great car with all this high-performance stuff, but we'll know every time you use it and dock you on insurance rates to compensate"

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#204

Post by Ajedi32 »

Jaruzel wrote: post #12

The main issue here I guess, is Tesla assisting the bailiffs. Bailiffs (here in the UK) have certain legal rights to enter and repossess your house and/or remove property you haven't fully paid for. They are granted this right via a case-by-case court order. If Telsa are also granted the rights within the court order to assist the bailiffs, then presumably it would be a fully legal action. At the end of the day, you…

The "main issue" is that Tesla is even able to assist the bailiffs in this manner.

If a remote party can, by design, lock you out of your car and take control of it without your consent, do you even really own the vehicle in the first place?

Others have argued "well, you don't own the car, the bank does", but unless Tesla is somehow unable to do this with cars not owned by a lienholder, that's kinda beside the point as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#205

Post by steelframe »

maxdo wrote: post #181
prmoustache wrote: post #41

As a bicycle and old motorcycles user I am gobsmacked that so much people accept that the vehicule they are using is connected or regularly phone home to the manufacturer. I guess if you share all your life on facebook and instagram, why shouldn't you also give away all your errands to any third party. Is there at least a license agreement you are showned at and have to agree to upon delivery? Can you operate those v…

Why would I want so? I want to warm up/cool the car before i get into it, listen for the music without plugging my phone every time , have a decent gps that is free, notify me about traffic, tell me if the charging station i'm going to is busy, alert me if someone is breaking in into my car. Heck I can even check the camera's from my App so I don't need to run if this is false alarm. I can even say something to this…

For me it's about control. I'm fine with having whiz-bang features on my equipment, so long as I am the final authority on anything and everything about them.

About a year ago I took my fancy EV on a ferry. I kept it on and ran the air conditioner because it was hot outside. Partway through the crossing I guess the suspension sensors interpreted the boat rocking as "something is seriously screwed up," and it locked the brakes and wouldn't release them when it was time to disembark. I had to sit there in my fancy EV looking like an idiot while everyone filtered around me and I took another trip across the water with cones around the car.

When I frantically called the dealership in the middle of all that, they said, "Sorry, your car has decided that it isn't safe to drive. You'll have to get it towed in so we can take a look at it. Oh, and since you're on a ferry, our roadside assistance won't help you. Good luck!" When I asked the ferry staff what I should do, they replied, "Uh, usually we just ask the owner to shift into neutral, and we push the car off." Only the car decided for me that this wasn't a possibility, and the brakes remained engaged with no way for me to disengage them.

The next thing I did after I finally got back home was research which cars I could still buy today with manual transmission and an emergency brake attached to a lever and a cable. It's not at all about holding onto my youth. It's about being the final authority over my own goddamned property.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#206

Post by AdrianB1 »

A few years ago Netflix had a problem processing the payment for my subscription. They charged me again, also had problems, charged again. 3 times, every time the money left my account as the bank confirmed. A few days later, with no warning, they suspended my account while I was watching a movie.

I don't like the power these companies have in relation with their customers. The customer has no power at all, in most cases. In my case I had to ask the bank to revert the charges and close my Netflix subscription, but it was just ~ $30-40 at stake, not a $50,000 car. How many times cars are repossessed without any fault of the customer?

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#207

Post by dsr_ »

errcorrectcode wrote: post #173
Moru wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or that any hacker that gets into Teslas system will have a field day.

Mass theft, bricking, or actual crashing potential. It's a Futurama episode/ Sword of Damocles waiting to happen.

Right. Compromise the right credentials, and you can order a high percentage of parked Teslas to start backing up.

That probably won't make them cause damage immediately -- I assume there's a set of sensors that will apply brakes rather than hit a wall or a detected car -- but there's a lot of chaos to apply that way.

I wonder if Tesla's EULA immunizes them against such breaches.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#208

Post by usefulcat »

jchw wrote: post #138
ctdonath wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A first step. Won’t be long before the car goes to the repossession lot itself. Tesla is evolving country music: not only will your girl leave you, so will your truck.

I don’t usually vote up comments that are mostly humorous on HN, but there’s always an exception. To me the problem isn’t that they might, but that they can. I guess the fault is technically on the person who rented something under terrible terms, but the problem to me is that over time terrible terms seem to win out over reasonable ones. Not to mention, if Tesla is capable of doing this for rentals, I have to assume…

> over time terrible terms seem to win out over reasonable ones

Tyranny of the marketplace, I guess. If most people are not bothered by the terrible terms, then the selection of items with non-terrible terms will be correspondingly small.

Case in point: I'd like to buy a TV (even at a higher price) that does not have ads all over the interface. From what I can tell, as of right now there are approximately a handful of such TVs, not counting older models that probably aren't produced any more. And of course out of that handful, most are not very good in other respects..

I don't know how to solve that apart from regulation, which is often a very poor solution.

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#209

Post by Datenstrom »

015a wrote: post #198
aasasd wrote: post #190

A bunch of years ago, when Tesla and Google's car were only just starting and it was fashionable to discuss the implications of self-driving cars, one dude wrote (approximately): > People are discussing: if the car has to choose between running over a pedestrian and sacrificing the driver's life, what should it choose? Well it's obvious: the driver pays for the car, so they wouldn't buy a car that kills them in case…

I'm pretty strongly of the position that high levels of self-driving are impossible for artificial intelligences to attain, because they're built by corporations. Driving is VERY risky, and involves an irreducible assumption of both risk and liability on behalf of the driver. Humans are natural risk-takers. Corporations are not; and any artificial intelligence a corporation produces is always, at some level of meanin…

From Tesla's release of their full self-driving beta and its performance in a recent CGP Grey video where it successfully navigates the most dangerous road in America[1] I think a lot of people are going to have to eat their hats on this stance very soon.

I consider myself bullish on this tech, and I have worked closely with autonomous robotics, but I didn't expect it this soon.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tgmGqXysM

Re: Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent

#210

Post by ljm »

romwell wrote: post #177
oconnor663 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ha. Though my guess is, once self-driving is reliable enough to do that, the economics of car ownership are going to flip completely. It won't make sense anymore to have a car that spends most of its time sitting unused in your garage.

Imagine, now, that self-driving combined with Uber pool, so that people who need to get from and to the same destinations at the same time (as is typical for commutes) would be able to share the ride. Imagine then making those vehicles larger to enable not only a decrease in traffic, but an increase in housing density, local infrastructure in walking distance, and economic growth. Imagine if we then realized we could…

Imagine how different the US would be if it was Big Public Transportation that lobbied to have towns and cities designed around them, rather than the car industry. Walking, cycling, buses, trams, trains, etc. etc. You'd still have cars but they wouldn't be a basic need for survival like they're often treated as, because you can't get anywhere without one.

Because it was basically 100 years ago when the car industry sought to dismantle that infrastructure, and succeeded.

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