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My parents collect cans for a living

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Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#281

Post by newsclues »

oaiey wrote: post #115
Aissen wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saw that at your neighboor's in Copenhagen, and after the first outrage of paying +50cts per drink, I understood that I was seeing a glimpse the future… If littering is equivalent to throwing money, you simply won't do it. Weird side-effect: homeless people might ask for your empty bottle and do the collection. Not sure how I feel about that though…

> Weird side-effect: homeless people might ask for your empty bottle and do the collection. Not sure how I feel about that though… It becomes a respectful cooperation. When you party in a park, you place your containers next to a trash so a homeless can pick it up without searching the trash. They basically help you partying hard (and not caring/carrying about the bottles) and earn (by hard work) a bit of money.

It can become a disrespectful cooperation as well.

I’ve had people rummage through recycling bin for cans and leaving a mess, I’ve seen fights over who gets to collect cans, and I’ve seen trespassing to collect cans from people’s private porches.

When collecting cans goes from a lucrative hobby to a business, problems arise.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#282

Post by throwaway0a5e »

pessimizer wrote: post #233
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gets to define "made it"? Did the electrician or garbage truck driver who's parents came from just as much not also make it? Why is it implied in so many comments around here that anyone who didn't go to college and get a white collar job pushing papers/code/spreadsheets didn't make it?

You're the one who, when trying to come up with examples of people who other people would think haven't made it, came up with electricians and garbage truck drivers. What are you arguing here? That all people are equally comfortable and all jobs are equally good, and that implying that suffering is bad is demeaning to the people who suffer? It's like upside-down wokeness. While some people are arguing to put in wheel…

Oh FFS.

My point is that it's unrealistic to expect people to go from refugee to hedge fund manager in one generation. Refugee to stable blue collar is reasonable.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#283

Post by MomoXenosaga »

kebman wrote: post #94
rladd wrote: post #53

This is why I have always thought that can and bottle deposit prices should keep up with inflation: to give the collectors a living wage.

The cost of food is suppressed, because our elites, leaders and politicians know what happens when that too is subjected to inflation as well, and that is revolution. Meanwhile, as far as I can see, the frog-boiling of regular people has been steady at least since the 60's. Back then the cost of a nice apartment was about one or two years pay. Today it's easily 10 years pay, and so the former middle class opt out of…

Don't forget the wonderful American invention of the "gig economy". Minimum wage, healthcare, job security? No we must destroy everything our ancestors fought for.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#284

Post by throwaway0a5e »

thehappypm wrote: post #277
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gets to define "made it"? Did the electrician or garbage truck driver who's parents came from just as much not also make it? Why is it implied in so many comments around here that anyone who didn't go to college and get a white collar job pushing papers/code/spreadsheets didn't make it?

Electricians probably make more than half of the folks commenting on HN.

The "average techie" income curve is generally shifted higher than the "average electrician" bell curve though the shapes are different and there's some close areas and intersections.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#286

Post by dangus »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #258
Warrenio wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This story is set in Brooklyn, so the author's parents are likely benefiting from the five cent deposit on every beverage can sold in the state of New York [0]. Can deposits are a great idea, in my opinion. Why don't more places have them? They give people an incentive to recycle (so they get their deposit back), and if they choose to litter, whoever cleans up after them gets the money. [0]: https://www.tax.ny.gov/bu…

Because it obfuscates costs and creates complexity that can cause more issues, such as people raiding garbage bins. It would be more straightforward if government paid for cleanup of litter and it becomes a part of the spending budget where the amount of spend can be tracked. And teach children not to litter and cultivate that sense of responsibility for one’s environment. And prosecute littering.

In the end, the deposit is a simpler and low-cost low-effort solution. It's probably the best example of a policy where a small change to law can impact behavior greatly.

If you go to a city with a plastic bag tax, you'll notice that far fewer people are using plastic bags. Cashiers won't automatically drop a single item into a bag, they'll ask if you need them and even when they do, they'll use fewer bags.

The funny thing is, a policy like a 7 cent bag tax is incredibly negligible. That means your big-ass shopping trip with 20 plastic bags is costing you $1.40 if you choose to go that route. You could absolutely choose to do that every time you shop for groceries and it wouldn't affect your finances. But that's the thing, people see a financial incentive, and no matter how small, they take it. Similarly, that's why the can/bottle deposit is so effective.

I read this article recently about giving people a tiny monetary incentive to go to the gym got people to go back:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/08/well/move/exercise-motiva...

Surely, these gym members spent more money on gas to just get themselves to the gym in the first place!

Prosecution of littering is impractical, "it doesn't scale," as one might say. It's nearly impossible to catch that crime as it occurs.

I'm not even sure that "raiding garbage bins" is an issue. I guess sometimes people digging through garbage make a mess, but every time I see this happen in real life the people doing it are relatively respectful and make sure the trash stays in the bin.

Local governments already do pay for the cleanup of litter, but the problem is that litter is just everywhere. It's a losing numbers game. You'd have to hire a literal army to keep it in check.

By the way, can/bottle deposits don't cost the taxpayer money! It's a tax you pay on the drinks when you buy them, and you get it back when you return them. That's why it's called a deposit.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#287

Post by ratww »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #274
Aissen wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saw that at your neighboor's in Copenhagen, and after the first outrage of paying +50cts per drink, I understood that I was seeing a glimpse the future… If littering is equivalent to throwing money, you simply won't do it. Weird side-effect: homeless people might ask for your empty bottle and do the collection. Not sure how I feel about that though…

I am not a rich man but the homeless guy needs the 50 cents more than I do. And I rather have homeless people collect cans than making street music to be honest...

I always assumed street musicians and homeless people were different people

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#288

Post by cgriswald »

namdnay wrote: post #170
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you get a rebate for engaging in "desired behavior" doesn't make it not a tax.

when it's a 100% rebate for the vast majority of people i think it does? the money doesn't go to the state, it goes to the organisation that handles the recycling, and you get a 100% rebate for doing the normal thing

In California the money goes from bottlers to a state agency and the program is essentially used to fund curbside recycling programs. The costs get passed down to consumers. While it’s indirect, it’s essentially a government service you’re taxed for that you pay either with your wallet or your labor.

Additionally, since the deposit is not exempted from sales tax, the consumer also pays more sales tax than they would otherwise.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#289

Post by AlwaysRock »

My dad walked/s most mornings. During my childhood he always brought a little store plastic bag and picked up and cans or bottles he walked by on the road. After many many years he said for something significant with the money like a semester of tuition or a car down payment. Something like that.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#290

Post by throw8932894 »

jimbokun wrote: post #215
throw8932894 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> I would not call that "make it". Maybe once they own couple of houses or business. You sound exactly like the snobby kids in the story, judging who can be proud of "making it" and who can't. Anyone who doesn't own a couple houses or business should feel ashamed for not "making it".

OP argued that US is so great, since it allows immigrants to "make it" by collecting trash. It is exactly this type of smugness, false positivism and immigrant exploitation I hate.

People should not be ashamed for not owning a house. But they should also know that chance to buy a house for unqualified worker in NY is 0.001%. If there is a realistic view of situation in US, they may stay at their home country.

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