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Against 3x Speed

perell.com

251–260 of 353 posts

Re: Against 3x Speed

#251
post #80

Reading many of the comments, it seems most agree that listening at a factor>1 is better. As a fast reader (books, not audio nor video, never really tried that myself) I wonder how this can be understood with the 'common knowledge' that when speaking (presenting) one should slow down. E.g., let those meaningful pauses endure.

You probably get an overrepresentation here of people for whom it's all about maximizing information density. Personally, if that's my objective unless it is a case of a photo (or video) being worth a thousand words, reading is mostly better.

With respect to conferences presentations, I'm mostly a fan of shorter (<30 minute) presentations. If something piques my interest, I'll track it down afterwards at my own pace.

Re: Against 3x Speed

#252
post #4

I get the point you're making - but honestly I have to raise the counter argument, which I think is equally valid. Take for example, the average lecture video. The information density is so low, that I'd imagine that a 60 minute video could be compressed into 10-12 minutes without any loss of information. It really depends on what you're listening to/watching.

My experience is that speeding up low-quality content makes it more tolerable, whereas speeding up high quality content makes it less enjoyable.

So now I just don’t speed up. If the quality is low, I don’t listen to it. If the quality is high, I enjoy having the time to think about what the speaker is saying, while they’re saying it.

Re: Against 3x Speed

#253

I'm impressed more by the comments than the article itself. Some people insist they make progress and listen 3x, but nobody showed any practical measurements of own skills. A personal example: I used to listen to a famous linguist, and everything seemed nice and clear, but then I decided to go in details on one particular question (I think accentuantion), and opened his book. It was like if you showed your programmin…

100%! This reminded me of a similar lesson beaten into us _repeatedly_ in college. I would study for a test and feel like everything was crystal clear. Then i walk into the exam and get absolutely destroyed by stuff i thought i understood.. over and over again. It was (unfortunately) a common experience. Seeing the answers afterwards, they usually involved facts i knew applied in a way i could not. That experience co…

A bit off-topic, but I remember a college class in which I was completely lost. I wasn't even clear on the topic of the class. Nothing ever made sense. I got D's on most of the tests. I was enormously frustrated. Then, at the end, I got my final grade: B+.

My sense of relief was comical and fleeting. It was replaced by anger. How was it possible that most of the students in the class did worse than I? What an absolute waste to subject us all to such nonsense.

Re: Against 3x Speed

#254

The article isn’t just about playback speed. It’s a well-written piece about the importance of direct experience and not rushing through spoken lectures alone. It’s extra ironic, then, that much of the comment section here only seems to have absorbed the headline but not the content of the article. I have noticed that my most voracious podcast and book consuming friends seem to have developed a lot of surface-level k…

Learning happens in the space in between words. Without time for reflection, people inevitably just mirror information instead of integrating new ideas into what they know.

Re: Against 3x Speed

#255

I'm impressed more by the comments than the article itself. Some people insist they make progress and listen 3x, but nobody showed any practical measurements of own skills. A personal example: I used to listen to a famous linguist, and everything seemed nice and clear, but then I decided to go in details on one particular question (I think accentuantion), and opened his book. It was like if you showed your programmin…

This lends credence to the educational reform that I always found the most compelling: kids/people should be reading the chapters for the lecture ahead of time as their homework, and doing the practice problems in class instead of a lecture, so the teacher can actually help students work through problems (rather than parents who don't know the material). A brief review/lecture at the end to tie together all of that p…

Many teachers/professors I had in my youth asked the class to read the material before lecture so the lecture could be a summary and then most of the time spent asking questions/discussing the topic. Few students actually did so.

Re: Against 3x Speed

#256

I'm impressed more by the comments than the article itself. Some people insist they make progress and listen 3x, but nobody showed any practical measurements of own skills. A personal example: I used to listen to a famous linguist, and everything seemed nice and clear, but then I decided to go in details on one particular question (I think accentuantion), and opened his book. It was like if you showed your programmin…

This lends credence to the educational reform that I always found the most compelling: kids/people should be reading the chapters for the lecture ahead of time as their homework, and doing the practice problems in class instead of a lecture, so the teacher can actually help students work through problems (rather than parents who don't know the material). A brief review/lecture at the end to tie together all of that p…

I would go even further and argue that making students read or listen to lectures for any significant length of time without them being actively engaged with the lesson is sub-optimal.

Newer learning systems like Duo Lingo, ALEKS, and Brilliant do an excellent job of constantly, actively engaging students with the lesson, tightening the feedback loop between teaching the student something and checking whether they actually learned it to seconds rather than days.

After experiencing such systems for myself I'm blown away that they aren't already the norm.

Re: Against 3x Speed

#257

The article isn’t just about playback speed. It’s a well-written piece about the importance of direct experience and not rushing through spoken lectures alone. It’s extra ironic, then, that much of the comment section here only seems to have absorbed the headline but not the content of the article. I have noticed that my most voracious podcast and book consuming friends seem to have developed a lot of surface-level k…

I'm with you here. The money line of the whole article was almost a throw-away at the end:

He should think more strategically about what he wants to learn and why.

The article seems to jump around between self learning, a la podcasts and audio books, and the pitfalls of formal education, with its emphasis on assembly line lectures and dismissal of interactions between students.

In high school, I wanted to make video games, so I did some research and asked my parents for a C++ book. I took the book to school with me and read it between classes or whenever there was downtime. I never made any notes or did any exercises. I never got close to learning anything like functional knowledge of C++.

Later in college, I had an internship where I was asked to program in python, even though I had no knowledge of python. "You'll pick it up quickly", I was told. And I did! I never opened a single book, nor even used Google. I just poked through the existing library of code they did, asked questions of the other programmers when I could, and within a week I was contributing code to that codebase. By the end of my internship I was writing programs that were performing vital business tasks.

I'll finish this comment by adding that journaling has been a huge help to me for retaining knowledge and unpacking deeper lessons from familiar material. The book I read most often is the Bible, but you'll never see my Bible without a journal next to it. The journal allows me to develop the ideas in my mind, and so I can track how my understanding has expanded over time, from the literal meaning of what I'm reading, expanding to the metaphorical and psychological and spiritual lessons that develop over repeated encounters.

Re: Against 3x Speed

#258

I'm impressed more by the comments than the article itself. Some people insist they make progress and listen 3x, but nobody showed any practical measurements of own skills. A personal example: I used to listen to a famous linguist, and everything seemed nice and clear, but then I decided to go in details on one particular question (I think accentuantion), and opened his book. It was like if you showed your programmin…

This lends credence to the educational reform that I always found the most compelling: kids/people should be reading the chapters for the lecture ahead of time as their homework, and doing the practice problems in class instead of a lecture, so the teacher can actually help students work through problems (rather than parents who don't know the material). A brief review/lecture at the end to tie together all of that p…

This is the Thayer method, iirc

https://scholarscompass.vcu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=...

For each class, a text lesson is assigned. This assignment includes a reading and specific problems associated with the reading material. Each cadet is expected to "work the problems." (Note: Prior to 2000 these problems were called "drill problems"; the current terminology is "suggested problems.")

• "One learns mathematics by doing mathematics." Cadets are encouraged to be active learners and to "do" mathematics. Group work is encouraged and expected. Special projects are a major portion of each core mathematics course-work on these projects is done in teams of two or three.

• Cadets are required to study the concepts of each lesson in such a way as to be ready to use them in three ways: 1. To express them fluently in words and symbols 2. To use them in proof and analysis 3. To apply them to the solution of original problems

• The instructor's goal during each lesson is to cause the maximum number of cadets to actively participate in the day's lesson. One of the instructor's roles is to facilitate the learning activity in the classroom. This may take the form of a question or a remark to clarify a point.

• Class begins with the instructor's questions on the assigned text lesson. Cadets are asked if there are questions on the assignment. Example problems are worked and discussed. Cadets are sent to the boards to work in groups of two or three on specific problems that are provided (so called "board problems"). These board problems may be similar to the problems assigned with the text lesson or they may be "original."

• Cadets are selected to recite on the problems they work. Questions are encouraged.

• The instructor spends a few minutes to discuss the next lesson. This practice is commonly called the "pre-teach."

Re: Against 3x Speed

#259

I'm impressed more by the comments than the article itself. Some people insist they make progress and listen 3x, but nobody showed any practical measurements of own skills. A personal example: I used to listen to a famous linguist, and everything seemed nice and clear, but then I decided to go in details on one particular question (I think accentuantion), and opened his book. It was like if you showed your programmin…

> Some people insist they make progress and listen 3x, but nobody showed any practical measurements of own skills.

Perception is a strong force, and being good at "evaluating your current ability", and more broadly being good at "evaluating how good you are at evaluating your current ability", is a skill in itself.

Awareness that you may currently be incapable of measuring these things in an unbiased way is a big step on this path, the next step being the realization that you probably are incapable.

Re: Against 3x Speed

#260
like others have said about other commentes, the point isn't so much on consuming podcasts, audio books, or whatever faster - it's about how if that's the only thing you do, you won't end up actually learning anything
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