My parents collect cans for a living • Hacker News Board

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#251

Post by dfxm12 » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:08 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #234

kwhitefoot wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Norway a half litre or smaller container has a deposit of 2 kr, bigger containers are 3 kr (22 and 33 US cent respectively). But it isn't the size of the deposit that drives the return rate (95% or more here in Norway) it is the ease of doing it. Here all shops that sell such goods are required to accept the containers in return even if they were not purchased in that shop and even if they are of a different…

I live in the US, and all grocery stores I have been to have those reverse vending machines. I also never bother to return my bottles and cans, because it's still a waste of my time. I put all bottles and cans in the recycling, along with anything else recyclable (on the backend, almost everything goes to a landfill anyway. But that's not my problem.) Edit: for those asking, I have lived in multiple New England state…

I've not seen them in the US. Maybe I've seen them on Supermarket Sweep, though https://supermarketsweep.fandom.com/wiki/Recycling_Center :)

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#252

Post by z02d » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

_0ffh wrote: post #184

tobltobs wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 25 cent for glas, plastic bottles or cans in Germany.

Nope, glass bottles are just 8 cents.

Glass bottles are 8 cents, if they are re-use. Re-use glass bottles with a clip closure are 15 cent (and there are still some other kind of bottles with 15 cent). If they are only single use, they are 25 cents (e.g. beer from Lidl).

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#253

Post by jrochkind1 » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #234

kwhitefoot wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Norway a half litre or smaller container has a deposit of 2 kr, bigger containers are 3 kr (22 and 33 US cent respectively). But it isn't the size of the deposit that drives the return rate (95% or more here in Norway) it is the ease of doing it. Here all shops that sell such goods are required to accept the containers in return even if they were not purchased in that shop and even if they are of a different…

I live in the US, and all grocery stores I have been to have those reverse vending machines. I also never bother to return my bottles and cans, because it's still a waste of my time. I put all bottles and cans in the recycling, along with anything else recyclable (on the backend, almost everything goes to a landfill anyway. But that's not my problem.) Edit: for those asking, I have lived in multiple New England state…

I'm guessing the New England states were Maine, Massachusetts, Vermont, and/or Connecticut? (not new hampshire or rhode island, which don't have deposit laws).

My guess it that these machines are only going to be in states with deposit laws, and it's likely the grocery stores are legally required to take returns (whether by machine or human).

There are 10 states with bottle deposit laws (which mostly predate consumer recycling): California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, Oregon, and Vermont.

I suspect a much higher percentage of material actually gets recycled from bottles returned via deposit law mechanisms, compared to US standard "single stream" residential recycling, which are kind of notorious for their low rate of actual recycling (material taken away from homes actually being recycled) due to contamination and expense of separation.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#254

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #187

Retric wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages become a market question. The more their worth the more people start looking for a limited supply. Suppose you could pick up a can every 6 seconds (including time to collect deposit) that’s 600 cans per hour at even 5c per can people would make 30$/hour which is solid pay. Except at that value people would go out if they could pickup a can every 12 seconds and make 15$/hour, down to whatever wages still motivat…

Very nicely analysed! That's basically the same reason why Uber can't give their drivers a raise, even if they wanted to. Unless they were barring new would-be drivers from joining. Of course, that also means that they can't cut drivers' pay easily either. Especially with competition from eg Lyft.

[deleted]

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#255

Post by relaxing » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #122

kwhitefoot wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would soon get used to it. People are hardly going to give up drinking sugary soft drinks because of high deposit values. They might be reluctant but if there is no other way to get that sugary hit they will do it and eventually it will be just how things are done.

You're right that they won't give up drinking soda! But the experience of Philadelphia, [1] which imposed a per-ounce soda tax (later repealed) shows us that these tend to drive consumers to other jurisdictions (NJ) to buy groceries. This means Philadelphia lost out not only on soda sales, but also on other groceries purchased at the same time. Another issue that arises is that people will actually transport recyclab…

No one drove to NJ for groceries, the $5 bridge toll would offset any gains. You’d drive to one of the surrounding counties in PA, provided you lived close enough for the trip to make sense. According to that paper, that happened in about 50% of sales, which is still a net win in terms of reduced consumption.

Very little is “lost” to the city when that happens, because groceries are tax exempt.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#256

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

geerlingguy wrote: post #240

dahfizz wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the US, and all grocery stores I have been to have those reverse vending machines. I also never bother to return my bottles and cans, because it's still a waste of my time. I put all bottles and cans in the recycling, along with anything else recyclable (on the backend, almost everything goes to a landfill anyway. But that's not my problem.) Edit: for those asking, I have lived in multiple New England state…

I'm in the Midwest, USA, never seen such a reverse vending machine...

[deleted]

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#257

Post by umvi » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:24 PM UTC

i_am_proteus wrote: post #246

umvi wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why I have always thought that can and bottle deposit prices should keep up with inflation: to give the collectors a living wage It's not just inflation you have to keep up with but also falling material costs as aluminum is more mass produced, etc. Where does the money come from for the refunds? Without government subsidies I don't think it would make economic sense for a recycling center to pay $.50 or ev…

Typically these function as deposit programs: e.g. $0.10 per can is levied at retail purchase, to be hypothetically returned when the can is turned in for recycling, effectively creating bounties for the pickup and recycle of cans discarded rather than recycled.

Ah, so GP is essentially proposing raising prices on canned and bottled goods then to allow collectors to have living wage. That is a tricky needle to thread though because raise refund prices too much and fewer people will litter because it's like throwing money on the ground.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#258

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:24 PM UTC

Warrenio wrote: post #13

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #5

I'm guessing that the cans in this story are paid for by weight rather than the 10-20 cent deposit/refund you get where I am? How much is that worth? With the deposit, collecting cans can be a fairly lucrative side line for children and the retired - you often see people collecting cans from bus stop trashbins and at music festivals or park events there will often be people going around with large trash offering to d…

This story is set in Brooklyn, so the author's parents are likely benefiting from the five cent deposit on every beverage can sold in the state of New York [0]. Can deposits are a great idea, in my opinion. Why don't more places have them? They give people an incentive to recycle (so they get their deposit back), and if they choose to litter, whoever cleans up after them gets the money. [0]: https://www.tax.ny.gov/bu…

Because it obfuscates costs and creates complexity that can cause more issues, such as people raiding garbage bins.

It would be more straightforward if government paid for cleanup of litter and it becomes a part of the spending budget where the amount of spend can be tracked.

And teach children not to litter and cultivate that sense of responsibility for one’s environment.

And prosecute littering.

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#259

Post by longbrass » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

dahfizz wrote: post #234

kwhitefoot wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Norway a half litre or smaller container has a deposit of 2 kr, bigger containers are 3 kr (22 and 33 US cent respectively). But it isn't the size of the deposit that drives the return rate (95% or more here in Norway) it is the ease of doing it. Here all shops that sell such goods are required to accept the containers in return even if they were not purchased in that shop and even if they are of a different…

I live in the US, and all grocery stores I have been to have those reverse vending machines. I also never bother to return my bottles and cans, because it's still a waste of my time. I put all bottles and cans in the recycling, along with anything else recyclable (on the backend, almost everything goes to a landfill anyway. But that's not my problem.) Edit: for those asking, I have lived in multiple New England state…

In many places while they may be required, their position is relegated to the back or hidden side of the building. I imagine this is because most shoppers do not return their bottles and cans… while some consider those who endeavor to do so “unsightly” or a “traffic hazard.”

Re: My parents collect cans for a living

#260

Post by 999900000999 » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:25 PM UTC

During the great recession I had a co worker, a legendary game designer in some circles, tell me he was collecting cans to pay for gas.

When he was unemployed he was desperate for any type of work. I was more interested in how gentrification makes her family's life harder. Back when I was 19 you could get a place in LA for 600$. Now same place is 1300$, no matter how many shifts or cans you pick up your not covering that.

I hope some help comes to working class America...