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How Microsoft misunderstands the concept of user research (& how Apple doesn’t)

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Re: How Microsoft misunderstands the concept of user research (& how Apple doesn’t)

#11

Post by mstroeck »

steve8918 wrote: post #10
kenjackson wrote: post #7

Actually this blog post I think is a perfect example of how "designers" in the large don't get it. The ribbon was largely maligned for Office too by the web intelligencia, but as someone who spent time in the enterprise both consulting and selling apps, the ribbon is generally loved by its users. The people who hate the ribbon are the people who use OSX. Try giving Word 2003 to anyone who has spent any time with Word…

I recently started using a Mac about 6 months ago, and I'm surprised at how terrible some of the user experiences are. The Base OS is nice, but there's a lot to be desired by many of their applications. Finder is probably my #1 biggest complaint, because finding files is so hard to do with it.

Have you heard of Spotlight? It's the button at the upper right of your screen. It indexes all your files.

If you are talking about files that belong to the UNIX underpinnings of Mac OS X: that's what locate is for, for example - try typing that into a Terminal window.

Re: How Microsoft misunderstands the concept of user research (& how Apple doesn’t)

#12

Post by ams6110 »

The point that (most) users just want to "find their files" and not "explore the filesystem" is a good one. That said I think both Apple and Microsoft have not found the optimal solution but instead seem to be stuck in local maxima.

I actually tend to use the shell for almost all file management tasks. But it seems to me to be an exercise in futility to try and make a file manager app that pleases both users who just "want to find their files" and those who want to be able to organize them in a specific way or for other reasons need more direct visualization of the underlying filesystem.

Re: How Microsoft misunderstands the concept of user research (& how Apple doesn’t)

#14

Post by steve8918 »

dpark wrote: post #8
steve8918 wrote: post #4

I think the main problem with Microsoft is that their strategies have been more focused on doing things that reinforce their Windows monopoly. I can understand why, since it's what keeps them alive, but it also forces unnatural behavior, like embedding IE into the OS, and prevent natural innovation, which is what Windows is suffering from currently. Now their focus appears to be changing things so that people will up…

> Microsoft isn't making changes because they want to improve the user experience. They are trying to change the user experience in order to preserve their desktop monopoly by leveraging their new users and preventing a barrier of entry to other OSes. You're looking for a malicious intent in everything Microsoft does. Isn't it possible that the Windows execs simply believe tha the ribbon interface is an improvement r…

I don't think it's malicious, I think it's self-preservation. It's a fact that their innovation has been strangled because of their strategy to circle the wagons around Windows. Look at what happened once they gave their engineers some breathing space: they created Bing, which is seemingly decent. Also, X-box and especially the Kinnect. Microsoft CAN do innovative things, the only problem is their corporate culture to protect Windows at all costs.

Changing the user experience, to me is a competitive enhancement. Do you think people actually cared about that much about menus that it needed to be changed? It's really doubtful. It's obvious that they are trying to differentiate themselves from the other OS's with it.

Ribbon was the only major new feature added to Office. Again, it's obvious they were doing this in order to give people a reason to upgrade, because Office is now fully-featured, with very little reason to upgrade. I'm still using Office 2003, and I could probably get away with using Office XP or 97.

In terms of discouraging current users, that's why they have the option to remove Ribbon for older customers, but they will default to the new way for new users. I'm still using the Windows 95 interface on Windows 7.

Re: How Microsoft misunderstands the concept of user research (& how Apple doesn’t)

#15

Post by sirn »

iaskwhy wrote: post #3
cateye wrote: post #2

I am using both operating systems intensive daily. In my experience Windows 7 has really far better file management functionality and interaction. I think also that the redesign will be an improvement. Power users can turn the ribbon off and use short cuts.

He also points how Finder works today failing to realise Windows has been like that for a while with Libraries: http://www.file-extensions.org/imgs/articles/1/69/microsoft-...

The biggest difference between All My Files and Libraries is that Libraries requires you to manually manage library paths if the file is not stored in default locations. All files shown up in Libraries still retain the hierarchy layout of original directories.

All My Files just show recently used files (newly added, recently opened) in Spotlight index categorized by kind (not filetype, e.g. all my .py .rb files are grouped in developer category) and they shown up as a flat list without any hierarchy.

I agree that Finder is a bad example, though. (Even though I don't think I need anything more from Lion's Finder.)

Re: How Microsoft misunderstands the concept of user research (& how Apple doesn’t)

#16

Post by masklinn »

ams6110 wrote: post #12

The point that (most) users just want to "find their files" and not "explore the filesystem" is a good one. That said I think both Apple and Microsoft have not found the optimal solution but instead seem to be stuck in local maxima. I actually tend to use the shell for almost all file management tasks. But it seems to me to be an exercise in futility to try and make a file manager app that pleases both users who just…

> That said I think both Apple and Microsoft have not found the optimal solution but instead seem to be stuck in local maxima.

The Finder is not a maxima in any search space. It's always been terrible (where always == since OSX was first released) and it has not significantly improved over time.

As to Windows's explorer, I've find it regressing over time: I have not found 7's explorer to be superior to 2k/XP's under any metric, instead it's more confusing (menubar randomly hiding and showing), it defaults to completely pointless and insane options (Burn as one third of the sparse toolbar? Really?) and the search UI is a severe downgrade from XP's once you get to your results.

Re: How Microsoft misunderstands the concept of user research (& how Apple doesn’t)

#17

Post by kaffesump »

kenjackson wrote: post #7

Actually this blog post I think is a perfect example of how "designers" in the large don't get it. The ribbon was largely maligned for Office too by the web intelligencia, but as someone who spent time in the enterprise both consulting and selling apps, the ribbon is generally loved by its users. The people who hate the ribbon are the people who use OSX. Try giving Word 2003 to anyone who has spent any time with Word…

I just had to agree with this comment - Finder might just be one of the worst parts of OSX. In my opinion the Ribbon UI may be one of the biggest innovations in UI Microsoft did during the 00's (Metro UI = 10's?). The amount of space that the Ribbon UI provides for the main window (way more rows than the old UI) and the few amounts of clicks needed to perform your actions make it crazy efficient!

Re: How Microsoft misunderstands the concept of user research (& how Apple doesn’t)

#18

Post by spooneybarger »

kenjackson wrote: post #7

Actually this blog post I think is a perfect example of how "designers" in the large don't get it. The ribbon was largely maligned for Office too by the web intelligencia, but as someone who spent time in the enterprise both consulting and selling apps, the ribbon is generally loved by its users. The people who hate the ribbon are the people who use OSX. Try giving Word 2003 to anyone who has spent any time with Word…

'web intelligencia'? i think you could have made your point without a cheap us against them anti intellectualism aside.

Re: How Microsoft misunderstands the concept of user research (& how Apple doesn’t)

#19

Post by mkr-hn »

spooneybarger wrote: post #18
kenjackson wrote: post #7

Actually this blog post I think is a perfect example of how "designers" in the large don't get it. The ribbon was largely maligned for Office too by the web intelligencia, but as someone who spent time in the enterprise both consulting and selling apps, the ribbon is generally loved by its users. The people who hate the ribbon are the people who use OSX. Try giving Word 2003 to anyone who has spent any time with Word…

'web intelligencia'? i think you could have made your point without a cheap us against them anti intellectualism aside.

The submission itself is "us vs. them." What did you expect?

Re: How Microsoft misunderstands the concept of user research (& how Apple doesn’t)

#20

Post by mkr-hn »

steve8918 wrote: post #14
dpark wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft isn't making changes because they want to improve the user experience. They are trying to change the user experience in order to preserve their desktop monopoly by leveraging their new users and preventing a barrier of entry to other OSes. You're looking for a malicious intent in everything Microsoft does. Isn't it possible that the Windows execs simply believe tha the ribbon interface is an improvement r…

I don't think it's malicious, I think it's self-preservation. It's a fact that their innovation has been strangled because of their strategy to circle the wagons around Windows. Look at what happened once they gave their engineers some breathing space: they created Bing, which is seemingly decent. Also, X-box and especially the Kinnect. Microsoft CAN do innovative things, the only problem is their corporate culture t…

Have you used the ribbon interface in Office?
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