Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#321

Post by ryantgtg » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:07 AM UTC

rock_hard wrote: post #286

newsclues wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has the key to having them focus on “good” online content? Lots of discussion? How have the kids not been consumed by unlimited screen time? How do you keep them interested in real activities as well?

I grew up having unlimited access to candy Unlimited meaning whatever I could find in the house My wife on the other side grew up not having unlimited access to candy Guess who of the two of us as adult now can control their candy consumption and who if there is candy in the house will eat every last bit of it with 2/3 days? Forced limiting of anything won’t teach a person how to deal with it…quite the opposite

Same with my household (at least with snacks and treats). I remember being baffled when friends would come over and gorge themselves on all the snacks at my house. Then I realized it was because they considered these things a limited resource.

To this day a quart of ice cream can last me weeks even when it’s the only treat in the house. But then my wife joins the fray and suddenly it’s like a competition to finish it in one night.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#322

Post by webmaven » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:36 AM UTC

donw wrote: post #162

sirspacey wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: was intended as response to a reply to this. Appreciate the caution. We took a different approach. Unlimited screen time. Our daughter’s rate of learning is incredible. She willingly explores IRL play. No battles when we ask her to put down her iPad. Roblox and Minecraft are our shared playtime. I was homeschooled with no TV. My experience of her development is similar to what I experienced with my siblings. A…

Most parents treat tablets like fancy TV sets. The resulting harm can not be understated. Minecraft and Roblox are active, creative pursuits, and demand disciplined, logical thinking to achieve goals. Lincoln Logs and Erector Sets for the digital age. TV demands precisely the opposite. Kids are psychologically rewarded for passive non-thinking. They feel the win when their screen hero beats the villain, even though a…

> You could only watch cartoons and be bombarded with ads for maybe two hours at a time before something more boring and adult came on.

That was true at one point, but it is worth noting that Cartoon Network is about 30 years old now. And even before cable became the dominant TV delivery mechanism, VHS enabled lots of binge watching (and rewatching).

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#323

Post by maxwellb » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:37 AM UTC

peterbonney wrote: post #209

I think I say this every time I see a headline like this on HN, but I'll say it again: The past decade of social science research publication has proven that provocative-sounding results should be considered fraudulent until the underlying data has been published, and then (assuming the data passes muster) should be regarded with skepticism until independently replicated with a fresh data set.

If you're interested, the paper says the underlying data is freely available on request.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#324

Post by pyuser583 » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:39 AM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #207

pyuser583 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter began an extremely unhealthy relationship with screens during COVID. She watches YouTube for hours on end, usually 15 second meme videos that alternate between vacant and toxic. She’s obsessed with memes to the point where it’s impossible for her to hold a conversation with someone who doesn’t have a similar browsing history. She’s lost a shared common vocabulary with even her closed friends. Maybe iPads…

That is fascinating and surprising; I previously considered a Darmok -like language to be implausible, but it sounds like that’s exactly what you’re experiencing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmok (Edit: my inner cynic just popped up the question “are you sure she’s not just being a stereotypical teenager?” even though you didn’t mention her age).

She’s 10, not a teenager. And I meant “cultural vocabulary.” It’s difficult for her to talk about anything but memes.

And if you haven’t seen the same memes she has, she’ll try to tell you about the YouTube videos she’s watched. If you don’t find this interesting (nobody does), she’ll stop talking to you.

Again, not a teenager. A little girl.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#325

Post by maxwellb » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:42 AM UTC

hcurtiss wrote: post #256

gopher_space wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What it means is that you can't compare funding between the US and other countries.

Then what's your benchmark for "underfunded"? How are we to determine whether we're getting value for our investment, or whether it's something other than funding that's handicapping the outcomes?

A really easy benchmark would be to check whether funding pays for basic classroom supplies (tissues, chalk, paper for assignments, etc.), or if teachers commonly pay for that stuff out-of-pocket. In the US the latter is common.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#326

Post by tboyd47 » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 3:52 AM UTC

rackjack wrote: post #244

peterbonney wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does epidemiology have a well-publicized replication crisis with numerous examples of outright fraud from high-profile researchers? If so then yes. If not then why don’t you just say what you’re trying to say rather than imply it obliquely in the form of a question?

They need to imply it obliquely because their arguments tend to fall apart under scrutiny.

My “argument,” which is really more of an observation since we’re not debating anything, is clear. Epidemiology, as a social science, should not escape the same skepticism we approach the other social sciences with.

Perhaps my comment is slightly off-topic, but I just like to leave a friendly reminder since I don’t find epidemiological conclusions under enough scrutiny in public fora these days.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#327

Post by toast0 » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #213

twoodfin wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that poor parents don’t care about their kids’ success enough to want to choose what they perceive to be better schools is belied by the lengthy waiting lists for slots in charter or magnet schools and voucher programs. What we have now is a market-based approach, where the price of admission to a top flight public school system is a $1M mortgage.

The root cause is that you have more or less four choices * private, which is expensive (and in some cases not a guarantee of quality) * rich public, which requires probably living in the extremely local school district * magnet/charter, which usually have whole apparatuses dedicated to securing donor funding similar to how colleges ask former alumni and the wealthy to top up their budgets * poor public At least some…

> At least some of the problems might be solvable by consolidating America's extremely local school districts

Large school districts seem to attract their own special blend of problems.

> But it is absolutely insane that in some states "boundary-hopping" school districts can send parents who want the best for their child to jail.

Sounds like fraud, which is generally a jailable offense. Specific details would matter, but what would you expect to happen if you registered to vote with an improper address so you could vote in a different district for some reason? I'd expect some chance of jail.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#328

Post by relaxing » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 5:10 AM UTC

TMWNN wrote: post #291

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bankrupt in both their pedagogy and their budgets The budget woes are a myth. The US spends more on education than most other countries in exchange for middle of the pack results comparable to less developed countries with far lower budgets. The main budgetary problem is bureaucratic. The schools get more than enough money, but the teachers aren't the ones who decide how to spend it, so a teacher who wants more sch…

>The budget woes are a myth. The US spends more on education than most other countries Correct. New York City spends more per student than anywhere else in the US ( https://www.silive.com/news/2019/06/how-much-does-new-york-c... >). Baltimore, an incredibly poor and run-down city, spends the third most. #4-6 and #8 are all wealthy suburbs of Washington DC, but their schools are all far better than those of Baltimore…

Sounds like we should put an end to the systemic racism dragging down black and hispanic people.

The good news is, there’s zero cost in changing one’s mind to no longer be racist.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#329

Post by nitrogen » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 5:33 AM UTC

dools wrote: post #243

orangepurple wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, nobody is strapping people down and injecting them with a vaccine. Instead, they are merely withholding your ability to purchase food and avoid repossession of your shelter if they aren't vaccinated.

There are plenty of work opportunities that don’t require vaccination, just as there is work available where you can smoke while on the job. If you choose to smoke you will find it much more difficult to work as a flight attendant than a truck driver for example.

Flight attendants can smoke off duty if they want.

There are also other ways to limit the spread of viruses apart from vaccination, like testing, distancing, masks, ventilation, etc. There should be a gradient of choice, maybe with triage nurses at the "almost definitely need to vaccinate" end, and payroll processors at the "almost definitely would be okay with regular testing and/or other standard measures" end.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#330

Post by ltbarcly3 » Mon, Dec 20, 2021, 6:03 AM UTC

maxwellb wrote: post #325

hcurtiss wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what's your benchmark for "underfunded"? How are we to determine whether we're getting value for our investment, or whether it's something other than funding that's handicapping the outcomes?

A really easy benchmark would be to check whether funding pays for basic classroom supplies (tissues, chalk, paper for assignments, etc.), or if teachers commonly pay for that stuff out-of-pocket. In the US the latter is common.

Read the thread, this is not a problem of funding but allocation of funds. I know schools that can't find $50 for supplies still find $80,000 each for 3 assistant principals who don't do any work, even in theory.