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Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

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Re: Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

#171

Post by refurb »

supertrope wrote: post #167
refurb wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what was messaged to the general public from our leaders. The narrative went from “the vaccinated cant get infected” to “the vaccinated won’t really transmit it”, so “its clearly the unvaccinated who are the problem” to “well it turns out vaccinated people can get and transmit Covid just as well as unvaccinated”. And if vaccines wouldnt “end” Covid why so much discussion on R values and “herd immunity”. Th…

I think the CDC was being pragmatic. They recognized that Americans were fatigued after a year. Asking people to still mask and social distance even after vaccinating is a lot to ask for even if it would technically get the virus under control sooner by catching those breakthrough cases too. The prospect of normalcy would increase vaccine acceptance, and then we would hopefully reach herd immunity by vaccine as demon…

So the CDC lied and now that lie is coming back to bite them when people doubt what they say going forward?

And please, Delta was starting to circulate before the vaccine was widely available outside the US and Europe.

But that’s exactly what I’m talking about. The unvaccinated make a good scapegoat for the failure to properly message.

Re: Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

#172

Post by Msw242 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #118
Msw242 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are allergies to vaccines (not to the dose, but to everything else that is in the concoction that enables it to work). Also, immunocompromised people often can't take vaccines. Usually you can get a doctor's note explaining this, and you can participate in daily life normally (like going to school or college, which rightfully require vaccinations). I don't know if policy around the COVID vaccine is different...…

> Also, immunocompromised people often can't take vaccines. Nope. Immunocompromised people need extra doses of the vaccine, and even then it doesn't work as well. This is one of those false talking points that antivaxxers love to spread.

With over 300mm Americans, there is no one treatment plan for the entire country.

Not every physician is recommending every single one of their patients get this or any other vaccine. There are public policy implications for serving those people.

Re: Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

#173

Post by supertrope »

refurb wrote: post #171
supertrope wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CDC was being pragmatic. They recognized that Americans were fatigued after a year. Asking people to still mask and social distance even after vaccinating is a lot to ask for even if it would technically get the virus under control sooner by catching those breakthrough cases too. The prospect of normalcy would increase vaccine acceptance, and then we would hopefully reach herd immunity by vaccine as demon…

So the CDC lied and now that lie is coming back to bite them when people doubt what they say going forward? And please, Delta was starting to circulate before the vaccine was widely available outside the US and Europe. But that’s exactly what I’m talking about. The unvaccinated make a good scapegoat for the failure to properly message.

If they promote very cautious behavior (keep sheltering in place, wear masks) people will throw the catch phrase of "Trust the science!" back at them and demand why the vaccine has not solved the pandemic. If they loosen up on recommendations and something bad happens and they have to take a step back people say they are being capricious.

Re: Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

#174

Post by supertrope »

refurb wrote: post #171
supertrope wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CDC was being pragmatic. They recognized that Americans were fatigued after a year. Asking people to still mask and social distance even after vaccinating is a lot to ask for even if it would technically get the virus under control sooner by catching those breakthrough cases too. The prospect of normalcy would increase vaccine acceptance, and then we would hopefully reach herd immunity by vaccine as demon…

So the CDC lied and now that lie is coming back to bite them when people doubt what they say going forward? And please, Delta was starting to circulate before the vaccine was widely available outside the US and Europe. But that’s exactly what I’m talking about. The unvaccinated make a good scapegoat for the failure to properly message.

IMO the errors that cost 800,000 Americans their lives were made last year.

The President publicly denied the seriousness of the situation. The CDC didn't want to use a foreign test and made their own but they were all contaminated and always read positive. There was minimal contract tracing of travelers. The Surgeon General told Americans not to wear masks saying using masks incorrectly would harm them.

Re: Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

#175

Post by vidoc »

supertrope wrote: post #167
refurb wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what was messaged to the general public from our leaders. The narrative went from “the vaccinated cant get infected” to “the vaccinated won’t really transmit it”, so “its clearly the unvaccinated who are the problem” to “well it turns out vaccinated people can get and transmit Covid just as well as unvaccinated”. And if vaccines wouldnt “end” Covid why so much discussion on R values and “herd immunity”. Th…

I think the CDC was being pragmatic. They recognized that Americans were fatigued after a year. Asking people to still mask and social distance even after vaccinating is a lot to ask for even if it would technically get the virus under control sooner by catching those breakthrough cases too. The prospect of normalcy would increase vaccine acceptance, and then we would hopefully reach herd immunity by vaccine as demon…

> Unfortunately unvaccinated people took off their masks and then Delta happened.

That's a CNNesque statement right there.

Re: Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

#176

Post by supertrope »

vidoc wrote: post #175
supertrope wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the CDC was being pragmatic. They recognized that Americans were fatigued after a year. Asking people to still mask and social distance even after vaccinating is a lot to ask for even if it would technically get the virus under control sooner by catching those breakthrough cases too. The prospect of normalcy would increase vaccine acceptance, and then we would hopefully reach herd immunity by vaccine as demon…

> Unfortunately unvaccinated people took off their masks and then Delta happened. That's a CNNesque statement right there.

I don't watch sensationalist cable news. What do you mean exactly by CNNesque?

Re: Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

#177

Post by jiggawatts »

tootie wrote: post #107
jiggawatts wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I think it's more accurate to say Ivermectin works _as_ an anti-parasitic which was already known. The WHO does, in fact, recommend its use on covid patients who are at high risk for parasitic infection due to geography and steroid use. This is almost exclusively going to be in poor and tropical regions. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/11/18/ivermect...

This is precisely the point. It works! Against parasites! That won't save your from COVID itself, but some people have looked at the statistical benefits across all populations and extrapolated from there to claim that it is a wunder-drug that eliminates any requirement for vaccination.

Re: Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

#178

Post by jiggawatts »

desine wrote: post #52
jiggawatts wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

>Good luck! I look forward to your references to peer-reviewed, reproduced, double-blind studies upending decades of well established medical science. Why is my burden of proof higher than yours? I at least linked one study in my sibling comment. I haven't seen that from anyone, studying anything, in years. Around 2018 there were actually a ton of articles and discussions right here on HN about the reproducibility pr…

There are a ton of Ivermectin studies: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-t...

... which if analysed properly, result in the inevitable conclustion that it works as an anti-parasitic and improves outcomes, especially in nations where parasites are common.

To say anything else about it strictly puts the burden of proof on you. If you say it cures COVID, you need to demonstrate this. You also need to demonstrate how this effect isn't the well-demonstrated anti-parasitic benefit that the drug provides.

Look.

This is like saying that plaster casts are pain killers and we should all start eating plaster, despite the well-known use and benefit of plaster casts to physically stabilise broken bones. Moving broken bones hurt. Plaster casts stop the movement. Hence... plaster is a pain killer and should be taken orally to stop any pain -- oh wait -- no, it's only useful for broken bones! Because duh!. To say otherwise makes you look like a lunatic.

I mean... sure... there's a teeny tiny chance that plaster of paris somehow -- magically -- has a pain killing effect. But you'd have to have awfully good evidence that this is so, otherwise people are right to ignore you. Not to mention that ranting and raving and pointing to the studies done on patient pain before and after having been put into casts won't get you anywhere if those studies were done on motor vehicle crash victims only.

Get it?

Re: Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

#179

Post by mthoms »

jmarbach wrote: post #156
jjulius wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I will never question Pfizer again. I didn't say you, nor myself or anyone else, shouldn't question them, just that they haven't been incorrect in this instance as you've suggested. I'm not sure why your snark is needed in your multiple responses here.

The Pfizer vaccine is not 90% effective. That’s a fact.

They didn’t claim it would be.

They claimed it was 90% effective in the (time limited) study which they performed.

It’s fair that you might have misinterpreted that as meaning it will be 90% effective. Especially if you don’t know how viruses work, but that’s not what was actually claimed.

Re: Pfizer’s Covid-19 Pill is 89% Effective in Phase 2/3 Study

#180

Post by vidoc »

supertrope wrote: post #176
vidoc wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately unvaccinated people took off their masks and then Delta happened. That's a CNNesque statement right there.

I don't watch sensationalist cable news. What do you mean exactly by CNNesque?

I don't know, the idea that the spread of the Delta variant can be attributed to the "unvaccinated", whose morality is so low that they also happen to often be "anti-mask" as well. This is the kind of scapegoating i would imagine CNN do (I'm being unfair here, CNN would probably add a bit of Russian disinformation as well for good culture war mesure.)

I'm ready to change my mind tho if you back your statement with facts.

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