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Against Translation

libertiesjournal.com

11–20 of 55 posts

Re: Against Translation

#11

Of course it would be great to read books in their native language, but is it better to get a reasonable translation of a book, or no translation at all? That is the question. If you take some authors with multiple translations over many decades, e.g. Proust or Hugo, you can see that the early translations are actually very rough, and only recently are we seeing very high quality. The main problem is that language tr…

Tangentially. As someone who has only read the old Signet version of Les Mis, I find it interesting that you think it isn't as good. When I read it, I was very impressed with Hugo's prose (or at least, filtered through the translated lens). It was not like reading anything I had ever previously read. Sounds like I need to check out the new one then too :)

Re: Against Translation

#13
Speaks as if "translation" doesn't happen in reading in native languages. A word's meaning can change every other decade, when I'm reading something in native tongue I'm constantly rationalizing what I read into my own words, which I would categorize as translation. Some good translators' work might even convey more accurate original intent than reading natively yourself because they're supposed to study the context of the writing thoroughly.

One interesting point I heard from a Lex Friedman podcast is it'll be interesting to do a database of diffs between different translated versions of the same literatures. I think stuff like this can greatly aid people's understanding of the original intents.

Re: Against Translation

#14
English is not my first language but I feel fluent enough that the majority of my book reading nowadays are in English, I studied for some time in a English speaking country and I watch movies and tv shows without subtitles.

So, although I’m not a native speaker I feel deeply invested in the English language. All this to say that I still struggle with many rarely used words. Or archaic uses of the language. I constantly use my kindle dictionary to look for non usual words for birds, plants, etc that I never stumbled upon before.

If I do this for a language that I invested 20+ years of serious media/book consumption I’m absolutely out of luck reading anything in French or, god forbid, Russian (two of my favorite literary countries).

Yeah, I will never have that deep soul bonding connection with Russian authors that only those who speaks their beautiful language can experience, but I had enough experience reading good translations in my mother tongue and reading the original in English that I’m confident that It’s not a huge loss.

Re: Against Translation

#15
post #4

I don't generally have a problem with long-form, but if your article has a title that implies there's an argument in there, I feel like you owe it to the reader to at least give some idea of what that argument is within the first 5 paragraphs.

After reading the whole thing, I got the distinct impression that the author probably strongly dislikes readers who want (or are used to!) an argument presented in the first 5 paragraphs.

I only made it 1.5 paragraph's in. I quit reading at "vomity."

Re: Against Translation

#16

Quoted post unavailable.

One noteworthy thing is that the author of this essay is a prominent and successful literary translator. Other ideas in this piece:

* People are losing familiarity with their nations' or languages' own historic literary cultures (because of a mixture of guilt, technology, and cultural globalization).

* Literary translation sometimes gives an illusion of familiarity when readers are still missing out on much (much!) more context than they think.

* There is an awkwardness in the fact that literary translation into English is more important, prestigious, useful, sought-after, etc., than literary translation to any other language whatsoever. The success and prominence of this enterprise means that many people around the world are becoming moderately familiar with some foreign writers, in a way that the author fears may be more superficial than readers realize, while remaining ignorant (and increasingly so) of classic and contemporary writing in their own languages by their own compatriots.

* The lossiness of translation that's especially bothering the author here is not so much lossiness in the language but lossiness in the cultural context. That is, you may actually understand words and sentences very well in translation, and follow what's going on in a novel and how it was described, but still be missing a ton that another acculturated reader would have picked up on. Maybe an analogy to this is the way that we miss so much today when reading Shakespeare, not just because of his use of words that we don't recognize, but also because of a steady stream of references that we miss. Shakespeare is also often making a lot of sexual jokes that most readers today don't even notice.

Re: Against Translation

#17

Quoted post unavailable.

"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something."

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

"Don't be snarky."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Against Translation

#18

This was too long for me to understand. The author should just get to the point they want to make.

The bigger issue is there's like five entirely separate theses that he kind of tries to ramble through in a single article that should've been split up. Some of his points are excellent but some of them are silly and childish, the products of someone who lives in academia and not the real world.

Re: Against Translation

#19

Of course it would be great to read books in their native language, but is it better to get a reasonable translation of a book, or no translation at all? That is the question. If you take some authors with multiple translations over many decades, e.g. Proust or Hugo, you can see that the early translations are actually very rough, and only recently are we seeing very high quality. The main problem is that language tr…

Tangentially. As someone who has only read the old Signet version of Les Mis, I find it interesting that you think it isn't as good. When I read it, I was very impressed with Hugo's prose (or at least, filtered through the translated lens). It was not like reading anything I had ever previously read. Sounds like I need to check out the new one then too :)

Please do. Les Mis was the first book my wife sent me in jail. I read the Penguin version and then one of the guys in my cellblock showed me the Signet one and said he was struggling with it. I read a bunch of it and was highly disappointed.

Re: Against Translation

#20

Of course it would be great to read books in their native language, but is it better to get a reasonable translation of a book, or no translation at all? That is the question. If you take some authors with multiple translations over many decades, e.g. Proust or Hugo, you can see that the early translations are actually very rough, and only recently are we seeing very high quality. The main problem is that language tr…

My view on translations is that if literary luminaries such as Gabriel García Márquez and Vladimir Nabokov both think that the English versions of their work fully stand up to the test (which they are both on record as stating), then that is good enough for me. I am not monolingual. I know what it feels like to read in different languages, and here's the thing: The words? The grammar? Easy. You can learn enough to st…

> The culture behind the language? That is what takes decades to acquire, and if you don't have it, I 100% guarantee you will get a more accurate reading of the author's intent in a well-translated work than you ever would lurching your way though the native text.

This is definitely true, especially the further a culture is from your own. Japanese culture especially has all sorts of features that will whooosh! over the heads of most people reading those books in translation. It's not that you won't enjoy a book in translation, it's just that you're never getting 100% of what a native will get it from it. We have to just accept that. We don't have enough hours in our lives (right now) to study a language to native level and live in that culture to native level simply to enjoy a book.

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