The concept of using human neural networks instead of artificial neural networks is both terrifying and intriguing.
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Clumps of human brain cells in a dish can learn to play Pong faster than an AI
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Re: Clumps of human brain cells in a dish can learn to play Pong faster than an AI
#62So we may be able to use brains instead of GPUs sometime?
Phase 1: Collect brains...
Phase 2:
Phase 3: Profit!
Re: Clumps of human brain cells in a dish can learn to play Pong faster than an AI
#63The concept of using human neural networks instead of artificial neural networks is both terrifying and intriguing.
This was the original premise of The Matrix, but it was decided that would be too complicated for the general public to handle, so they made it "the machines use humans as batteries".
Re: Clumps of human brain cells in a dish can learn to play Pong faster than an AI
#64How do they do it in practice? How do the neurons know when they succeed / fail?
So it looks in the paper they're using a theoretical framework called the Free Energy Principle developed by Prof Karl Friston at UCL which postulates that brains have evolved to minimise the amount of information surprise between their own internal generative model of the world and the observable world.
The paper uses this as the basis of learning and it looks like the neurons are given a random (electrical) stimulus when they miss the ball and a predictable stimulus when they hit it.
Re: Clumps of human brain cells in a dish can learn to play Pong faster than an AI
#65As far as I can tell, this is just a clever trick. The cultured neurons aren't really learning anything. The researchers are stimulating one side of the array (top or bottom), to indicate if the ball is above or below the paddle, and based on the ensuing response the computer moves the paddle up or down. Here's the trick - if you stimulate a group of neurons, their spontaneous activity will be (briefly) different fro…
I’m really disillusioned by science this year. Almost every study I’ve read about on hn in the last year had serious methodology issues
Re: Clumps of human brain cells in a dish can learn to play Pong faster than an AI
#66The concept of using human neural networks instead of artificial neural networks is both terrifying and intriguing.
Go read Dan Simmons Hyperion Cantos
I'm starting the second book right now and I'm hoping this hasn't spoiled anything.
There hasn't really been mention yet of using human brain cells, other than that cybrids (biologically human bodies with AIs in the driver's seat) are a thing.
Re: Clumps of human brain cells in a dish can learn to play Pong faster than an AI
#67As far as I can tell, this is just a clever trick. The cultured neurons aren't really learning anything. The researchers are stimulating one side of the array (top or bottom), to indicate if the ball is above or below the paddle, and based on the ensuing response the computer moves the paddle up or down. Here's the trick - if you stimulate a group of neurons, their spontaneous activity will be (briefly) different fro…
This seems a bit different than what you suggest. The paper shows the "average rally length" and "# of hits per minute" increasing as time goes on for the group which received additional stimulus as feedback when it hit the ball.
It did not find an increase in these metrics for groups where the input signal went silent as feedback after hitting the ball, nor for groups which merely continued receiving the usual input ("no feedback").
I have no idea if this is repeatable, but it seems like a valid conclusion from this data that the neuron colonies which were given feedback in the form of extra stimulation, exhibited better performance after the first 5 minutes of each trial, and better performance each subsequent day when they would run another 20 minute trial.
Re: Clumps of human brain cells in a dish can learn to play Pong faster than an AI
#68With "Evangelion" being in the (Hacker) news recently, I hope to remind people of this one scene... An advanced AI named "The Three Magi" (which are 3-programs which vote for strategic effects) exists in the show. Without going too much into details, a problem occurs in the AI, so the lead scientist Ritsuko steps into the machine to check things out. She comes with a circular saw. She cuts open one computer (the one…
Yes that would be a tricky issue to decide and I personally don’t think we should worry about it. The future generations will have to decide what their ethical framework allows for however I don’t think we’re on the path to putting a human brain in a PC and attaching wires. Though we may meet half way where a lot of our computing resembles biologically accurate neural nets by the end of the century or something (bill…
I'm a bit of an opposite opinion, in that the difficult ethics questions were with genetics and not necessarily much different with the brain per se.
Henrietta's immortal cancer cells were necessary in a large number of modern medicines, including the testing of the mRNA vaccines (one of the cheapest ways to test for human compatibility is to use isolated human cells for tests).
I don't see the brain as any more special of an organ than Henrietta's cells.
I wouldn't call it a dystopian future: this is much preferred over say, Nazi experiments. But we as a society should strive for better ethics. Maybe not necessarily banning Henrietta cells, but maybe at least paying her family a bit more of the royalties?
HeLa cells are really, really important test subjects after all.
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The real world certainly has different moral questions. Fiction can be used to think about imaginary problems and maybe even provide the discussion material for some real world examples.
But we must always ground ourselves back in reality as we make arguments. Lest we become like Don Quixote. (See what I did there? Lol)
Re: Clumps of human brain cells in a dish can learn to play Pong faster than an AI
#69How do they do it in practice? How do the neurons know when they succeed / fail?
From my very limited understanding, feedback is done by releasing chemicals. Not sure if hormone is the proper word but that's what comes to mind. Perhaps someone else here knows more about it.
Although another commenter said that they are signaled electrically, neurotransmitter might be the word you are looking for.
Re: Clumps of human brain cells in a dish can learn to play Pong faster than an AI
#70As far as I can tell, this is just a clever trick. The cultured neurons aren't really learning anything. The researchers are stimulating one side of the array (top or bottom), to indicate if the ball is above or below the paddle, and based on the ensuing response the computer moves the paddle up or down. Here's the trick - if you stimulate a group of neurons, their spontaneous activity will be (briefly) different fro…
I’m really disillusioned by science this year. Almost every study I’ve read about on hn in the last year had serious methodology issues
Perhaps that's in the HN comments more than in the research. IME, for as long as I've read HN, commenters have claimed to have found errors in methodology or similar basic problems. I don't know if I've seen any research posted that didn't receive that response.