Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

581–590 of 727 posts

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#581

Post by pphysch »

DangitBobby wrote: post #577
pphysch wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taiwan: 1. PRC has a very clear national security interest in Taiwan not being ruled by an unpredictable regime that may host American weapon systems pointed at the mainland. See Cuban/Soviet Missile Crisis. Coincidentally, similar situation going on with Russia and Ukraine right now. 2. If/when the DPP regime falls and is replaced by a more "independent" government, that government will naturally be favorable to joi…

Sounds like you've swallowed some propaganda yourself. "The mean old world is just lying about China." Kind of incredible that literally the whole world is conspiring against the truly good natured China because... Reasons.

Please substantively challenge any of the facts I laid out.

> "The mean old world is just lying about China."

It is a literally a core theme of modernity. Opium Wars, Yellow Peril, anticommunist crusades in SEA... Chinese civilization is a historical threat to narratives of Anglo racial/cultural supremacy like nothing else.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#582

Post by synergy20 »

nowherebeen wrote: post #541
picture wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who have spent 13 or so years of their life in China, I absolutely agree with this perspective. The culture of modern China seem to support a strangely "macho" image particularly for men: it's acceptable and maybe even encouraged, for men to be overtaken by rage, and thrash and kick around while yelling things. [1] It looks like this mentality is reflected by the politics of china as a whole. [1]: This is…

This is ridiculously and demeaning to the Chinese people. Losing your temper is universal and I have seen plenty of white friends that lash out. To say that only Chinese people behave this way and not white people is well at best a sign of superiority complex and at worst a subtle _______ remark.

People of all color lost temper all the time, that normally gets improved when they age.

The "Red Guards" (i.e. culture revolution) generation from China indeed stood out as a group that acts very differently. They are always ready to _fight_ with anyone just because of different opinions, thus the aggressiveness. It's a life long disease that keeps getting worse with no cure.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#583

Post by Enginerrrd »

manquer wrote: post #101
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China, unlike any of the Western nations, WILL take a stand on their principles over profit Surely that's a joke, right? China, which still has the audacity to call itself a "Communist" nation, which is basically much closer to a Fascist system, with their authoritarian and state-directed control of capitalism? China has one primary governing principle, which is to keep the CCP in power. Their primary way of doing…

The principle does not have to be ethical or moral or consistent to a philosophy. What OP saying is china does the ability (and uses it) to make unpopular decisions both to Chinese corporations or people unlike other politicians who are beholden to either voters or corporations. The kind of censure that Jack Ma had for example would be impossible to imagine to say Elon Musk in the US .

OP of the subject comment here: Yes, this is the correct interpretation. I wasn't trying to argue that China's principles are superior, let alone even ethical.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#584

Post by nowherebeen »

synergy20 wrote: post #582
nowherebeen wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculously and demeaning to the Chinese people. Losing your temper is universal and I have seen plenty of white friends that lash out. To say that only Chinese people behave this way and not white people is well at best a sign of superiority complex and at worst a subtle _______ remark.

People of all color lost temper all the time, that normally gets improved when they age. The "Red Guards" (i.e. culture revolution) generation from China indeed stood out as a group that acts very differently. They are always ready to _fight_ with anyone just because of different opinions, thus the aggressiveness. It's a life long disease that keeps getting worse with no cure.

I agree there are many in China that feel ready to fight. But I don’t judge all Chinese people like so. Just like I don’t judge all Americans act like their Republican politicians either. Imagine if someone called all Americans are loud, obnoxious, fat, and dumb. Something that is frequently claimed by most Europeans about Americans. This wouldn’t be fair to regular Americans, would it? What OP is doing is pre-labeling an entire country’s population. And it is wrong. If readers here can’t see how this is problematic, then I am simply disappointed how low HN has fallen over the years.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#585

Post by Enginerrrd »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #86
Enginerrrd wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it would require them to put principles over the profit of a few constituents. China's geopolitical strategy is brilliant. They see that their adversaries in democratic western countries are beholden to the quarterly profits of a handful of corporations. China, unlike any of the Western nations, WILL take a stand on their principles over profit (At least they seem to, but more on that in a second.) So, they've r…

> China, unlike any of the Western nations, WILL take a stand on their principles over profit Surely that's a joke, right? China, which still has the audacity to call itself a "Communist" nation, which is basically much closer to a Fascist system, with their authoritarian and state-directed control of capitalism? China has one primary governing principle, which is to keep the CCP in power. Their primary way of doing…

We're actually in agreement I think. I think I just wasn't sufficiently clear what I meant by "principles". I am not in any way condoning China's national principles, nor did I mean to even suggest they were ethical. (My personal belief there is quite the antithesis.) ....but rather that they are willing to play hardball even if it harms Chinese companies over the issues they care about as a nation. Many of those principles are humanitarian disasters, but that's not the point.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#586

Post by AnimalMuppet »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #543
CogitoCogito wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US _removed_ troops from Taiwan when they recognized the PRC. China has had every opportunity to bring Taiwan into its orbit by simply having enough sense to not threaten Taiwan so much as to to force it to seek out allies against it. Taiwan has shown that it clearly considered business interests to trump any differences in political philosophy. If China would simply declare that it wouldn’t attack Taiwan, then t…

The US removed troops as part of the One Child Policy. That policy is now being undermined by the DPP, US and Lituania, where "undermining" includes selling weapons to Taiwan, sailing more warships near China, and AUKUS. It's not exactly a peaceful situation right now where China's worries are completely made up.

> The US removed troops as part of the One Child Policy.

Say what?

Can you give some background (and, especially, evidence or documentation) for this? Because that sounds completely insane.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#587

Post by qwytw »

puszczyk wrote: post #512
mytailorisrich wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should not be overly naive and idealistic when it comes to international relations. A country's course of action is weighted in order to advance national interests. In the context of tensions with Russia and Belarus it seems likely that Lithuania is getting something out of its stance against China from the US.

I think historically HN was mostly immune to FUD. Hope this is still the case.

Otherwise Lithuanian actions would seem somewhat irrational, wouldn't they?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#588

Post by AnimalMuppet »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #351
sudosysgen wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is naive. The government simply doesn't have that power. If they tried to downplay Taiwan people would be absolutely furious. The extent of "mind control" is really not that great. The internet exists, and despite imperfect controls people have access to information. It would probably take Xi down to try to abandon Taiwan.

Serious question: Why do the Chinese people care so much about Taiwan though? What do they want with it? What's the endgame plan? If the vision is that everyone will be living happily ever after under the PRC umbrella, I could see some flaws in that reasoning. Like a whole population that will probably take up arms guerilla-style. I've visited Taiwan and even wearing pro-CCP colours is frowned upon. If they just want…

> What's the endgame plan?

How about unification, under the government of Taiwan? Is everybody down with that? No? Oh, then maybe the mainland could see why Taiwan isn't down with unification on the mainland's terms.

But that's the problem. Neither side is willing to be unified "under" the other. That's not unification; that's subordination. Neither is willing to be subordinated. So no non-violent unification is currently possible.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#589

Post by tonguez »

whimsicalism wrote: post #552
tonguez wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't think imprisoning a large proportion of a certain ethnic group due to BS laws around extremist ideology is all that different from imprisoning an even greater number of a different ethnic group (1 in 3 black men imprisoned) due to BS laws producing a 100:1 sentencing disparity based on which drug is more popular among a certain ethnic group." You think 1 in 3 black men imprisoned is due to crack vs cocaine l…

In the 90s, the majority of people in federal prison were due to drug offenses, primarily cocaine. [0] The sentencing disparity was a big driver of these increase imprisonment rates. But no, not all because of the disparity - but a large part. Illegal guns are another big offense sending lots of black people to prison. > African Americans now serve virtually as much time in prison for a drug offense at 58.7 months, a…

So your answer is:

"... no, not all ... but a large part."

So what percentage of black people were in prison because they were smoking crack? Why do you say it's "large"? Why don't you just say what the actual percentage was?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#590

Post by dang »

d3vmax wrote: post #402
whimsicalism wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US views itself as the enforcer of UNCLOS for all navigable bodies of water in the entire world, a treaty it hasn't ratified. It has tons of military bases in the SCS, a region not even close to it, compared to the furor when it becomes possible that China might build a single military base along Africa's atlantic coast. It seems like a bit of a double standard to me. I wish a good faith discussion about China wa…

PRC Shill alert!

Whoa - you can't break the site guidelines like this, and certainly not repeatedly (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29616354). We ban accounts that do this, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules, we'd appreciate it.
Post reply on HN