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Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

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Re: Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

#201

Post by antgiant »

frakkingcylons wrote: post #71
raldi wrote: post #24

The worst part of this is, if you don’t have an iPhone, you’ll never know if you’re being tracked. Edit: Yes, I know there’s an app. Do you think more than 1% of victims will have it installed?

Not true, no app is necessary. The AirTag will start beeping once it's been separated from its owner for longer than 8-24 hours.

Can’t Apple just provide an option that lets you force “stalking” air tags to beep on command? Seems like doing that could essentially solve this whole class of it’s tracking me but I can’t find it stories.

Re: Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

#202

Post by pengaru »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #189
pengaru wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is news just because it's an Apple device being used for something that was already trivially possible. Or it's news because unlike GPS trackers, AirTags create the ability to be psychologically abusive to victims by attaching them to cars or dropping them in purses at little cost, risk, or effort. Wanna take a guess as to how many assholes out there just want to make a mouthy cunt from the bar lose sleep vs.…

Why exactly is it lower effort than a cellular GPS tracker from Amazon? They're around the same size, and roughly the same cost.

> Why exactly is it lower effort than a cellular GPS tracker from Amazon? They're around the same size, and roughly the same cost.

Apple is going out of its way to assist in making AirTags discoverable while physically hidden and anonymous.

Some random cellular GPS tracker from Amazon gives the tracking capability, but how does one make it seem threatening while highly discoverable? You'd have to leave it out where physically visible, making the whole charade substantially less convincing.

Re: Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

#203

Post by concinds »

evan_ wrote: post #176
323 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AirTags will also beep if they're separated from their owner. Why didn't the AirTag beep in this situation? She said she went around the car trying to find it.

I’m sure it’s trivial to physically disable the beep speaker.

Indeed, a Google search is enough to find guides, and I assume most bad actors would be aware of this.

Re: Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

#204

Post by ineedasername »

johnnymonster wrote: post #181
godelski wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're correct, I think there is something to be said about the popularization of the technology. Most people aren't aware of GPS trackers other than movies and think they are much harder to come by. AirTags are also less nefarious by nature. If you get caught with a GPS tracker on your person that's pretty suspicious. If you're caught placing an AirTag on someone's car it's easier to pretend you dropped it and…

Security by obscurity is not security at all. Thinking you were safe because “people didn’t know about it” is not safety at all! Bad people are going to be bad. They don’t need AirTags for that. Knowing it can happen is far better for everyone to know about than living in a false sense of security.

Obscurity is not a good primary line of defense. But there's no reason why-- all else being equal-- it can't be part of a more robust setup. The more obstacles the better: like simply not using standard port #s for services so that it takes more than a quick scan of common ports to find something. Simple, and sure easy to defeat, but it takes you off the list for the lowest having fruit of targets.

Re: Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

#205

Post by ahepp »

derefr wrote: post #165
warning26 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a product where Apple really didn't consider the real world implications. It's a neat device, and I'm sure it's well intended, but it's not fit for the world we're currently living in. Exactly; it's unfortunate, but this sort of product should really be made illegal, just due to the many ways it can be misused.

This is incredibly inane. The components that make up a GPS tracker are both extremely cheap to produce, too general-purpose to be made illegal themselves, and can be put together to make a GPS tracker with zero technical skill, just by following any of a thousand YouTube videos. (I have one explaining how to make a GPS tracker out of an Arduino on my YouTube home page right now!) All that making GPS tracking devices…

I think there's some merit to the argument that making tracking products widely available has risks and downsides.

For one, there are some important differences between AirTags and a GPS tracker. AirTags don't use GPS (at least, on the tag itself). They're tracked by all the Apple devices around them, and they can use lower power (perhaps even passive) methods. A GPS tracker requires some kind of uplink. A tracker using GPS would need to be larger, and have a shorter battery life for a given size. AirTags are also innocuous to buy and not immediately alarming to see in someone's possession.

The argument that anyone is capable of building a GPS tracker in their living room seems unlikely to me. I think this is far beyond the capabilities of 99.9% of people (although it's a fairly straightforward and very fun project for people interested in Arduino).

All this said, I am mostly in agreement that the arguments against AirTags seem fairly weak. Especially because I assume Apple has a way to easily determine who placed the AirTag, and that they would face serious consequences.

Re: Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

#206

Post by lazide »

kadoban wrote: post #184
drekk wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, just recognize that the tech already was out there, for a lower cost, in a form factor that won't notify you you're being tailed This isn't a new thing and Apple takes steps that, for example, Tile doesn't to prevent their products from being used for nefarious purposes

I do recongnize that. Does only the first person selling a dangerous product deserve scorn? "X did it first!" is the excuse of a toddler. They've also made it easier than gps trackers (no sim card needed), probably safer for stalkers (does Apple have a way to report AirTags used for crime and/or find out who owns it?) and it's more effective than Tile. It also favors their own ecosystem, because only iphone owners ge…

Beating up on Apple for making something LESS able to be abused and more transparent/understandable just seems disingenuous though?

The difference in level of abuse for something that will actively draw attention to itself after some period of time vs something of the same cost that was previously widely available and was more subtle and would not, is pretty big. And it is in the favor of Apple not being abusive or favoring abuse.

Re: Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

#207

Post by pengaru »

ghaff wrote: post #188
pengaru wrote: post #168

Can someone just put any random AirTag on someone's car and have it trigger alerts on nearby iphones? Does one have to do something to activate it first? Curious if all one needs to do is get one and stick it on a randos car to cause psychological distress without even pairing with a phone or otherwise registering/activating the thing.

I'm pretty sure it needs to be activated to an Apple account. But seriously, people here way overthink things. If a random sicko wants to cause someone psychological distress there are a million ways that they can unfortunately do so that don't involve elaborate technology.

> If a random sicko wants to cause someone psychological distress there are a million ways that they can unfortunately do so that don't involve elaborate technology

This doesn't strike me as elaborate at all.

The fact is the largest generation living today is more engaged with the world via their smartphones than their physical surroundings. AirTags seem uniquely well suited to that reality, with Apple delivering notifications on the attackers' behalf and all.

Re: Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

#208

Post by awinter-py »

newaccount74 wrote: post #142
madeofpalk wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works like Tile and other previous Bluetooth trackers - it relies on a network of devices that can pick up the signal from the tracker and phone it back to the owner/Apple to know the location.

With the major difference that taking part in the Tile network is opt-in (you have to install an app) while taking part in Apple's Find My network is forced on iOS users (there is a way to opt-out, but 99.9% of iOS users are unaware of it).

fun antitrust case when tile decides they want their plugin to ship with the OS too

Re: Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

#209

Post by batshit_beaver »

beaconstudios wrote: post #70
rocqua wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the creepy potential. I don't see the danger.

The danger is that predators could track a child to a secluded area and abduct them.

Or you can just find a random kid in a secluded area and abduct them? Why bother tracking a specific one?

And if someone wants your particular kid for some reason, then they'll probably get them without Apple's assistance.

Re: Someone attached an AirTag to my car while I was in a bar

#210

Post by AdamJacobMuller »

mrweasel wrote: post #98
frakkingcylons wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true, no app is necessary. The AirTag will start beeping once it's been separated from its owner for longer than 8-24 hours.

That's going to be hard to hear when driving on the highway, also, the seems like a long time if someone is following you home from a bar. I don't think there's any good way for Apple to fix this. On the other hand, it's been possible to do something similar for a long time, just not this easy, and at this price point. You could suggest that the AirTag disable tracking if it move along with the same phone for more th…

> just not this easy

You're correct, it's been easier.

> at this price point

You're right, it's been cheaper.

> do something similar for a long time,

You're right, it's been similar except that the other methods were far harder for the victim to detect.

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