11–20 of 321 posts
Can we please get rid of the DevOps hype train? What gets completely ignored is that there is a reason that sysops has been a specialized role for decades. How often do we get threads here that people get their AWS accounts hijacked because of some credential leak (e.g. access keys in frontend builds), extreme expenses due to stupid autoscaling settings combined with a DoS attack or content leaks out of insecure s3 b…
He’s not wrong. Over complicating DevOps does take the control away from developers but I think a lot of the Ops part of DevOps is to create an internal PaaS that your devs can deploy to themselves.
This is also a great way of scaling teams - keeping a path of least resistance that is secure and compliant while giving observability and conventions.
I made a similar ranty blog post about devops. I was surprised by the amount of history and misconception that exists around the term. The term was originally intended as “Agile Systems Administration” but came about at the same time as a talk titled 100 deploys a day. So people conflated the two, and it didn’t help that the conference was a portmaneau of “Developers, Operations days” to encourage it being a conferen…
That explains why it's such a terrible idea.
So somehow the tools and workflow are exactly same for an app that has millions of external users and an internal app that only 10 people use. You still have to go through a whole stacks of K8S/docker who-knows-wtf-they-are configurations just to publish a dashboard from an internal IP. It took more than 8 months for my previous team to try to pull it off but it never went through.
While I do like that definition, it also means that most companies/organisation cannot do DevOps, as software development is often bought as projects, and operations is a recurring cost.
He’s not wrong. Over complicating DevOps does take the control away from developers but I think a lot of the Ops part of DevOps is to create an internal PaaS that your devs can deploy to themselves.
Except then it's not DevOps. If you have people working on 'DevOps' 100% of the time, that means they aren't working on Dev, and are only working on Ops. The idea behind DevOps is that Dev(elopers) do their own Op(eration)s, rather than throwing stuff over the wall for a separate team to manage. Not only has the industry done the opposite in many cases, they kept the name DevOps, meanwhile the full time operations st…
However, in our case (and probably many others), our devops team is responsible for creating and maintaining the tools and processes that allow the dev teams to manage their systems in production. At a larger organization, it doesn’t make since for each individual dev team to have to create and maintain their own deployment and management systems… that would end up with a lot of duplicated effort and a wide variety of systems that would need to be maintained. Devops creates the tools and procedures, and dev teams use them.
You might say this is just sysops, but I think the key difference is that the dev teams are the ones who are using the production management tools, not the sysops team. Devops is not the ones who are paged if a system has an issue, the dev team who owns it is paged. Devops is only paged if the tool that the dev team is using to handle the issue has issues itself.
Now I'm running my app via multiple docker images, trying to get a buggy remote debugger protocol to work (no local variables, wtff?) where I have to coordinate the container and the IDE, command line wrangling / using print debugging in the container to chase down stuff, digging around through multiple log files, copying-and-pasting stack traces into my IDE to analyze, which kinda works in some cases since the file paths are different, and on and on.
DevOps came and took my nice dev environment away, and I am mad.
Actually, it can even be split in three, where developers are done when the Pull Request is done.
Deployment, tooling and IaC is then handled by developers who specialize in this area.
A third group is then responsible for audit and security on the chosen platform, e.g. Azure.
How is owning a namespace on k8s with a shared services team looking after k8s health any different from using amazons aws apis and having shared responsibility with aws?
I don't really understand the railing against complexity just because you can see how the sausage is made. What's the deal?