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Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

economist.com

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Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#511

Post by [deleted] »

satronaut wrote: post #498
sfe22 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. I think we have been warned more than enough. You afraid? Stay at home and lock down. (Didn’t stay home and) got sick? Your problem if no space is available. Split hospitals 50% covid and continue the rest as usual with limited capacity. We cannot control covid anymore and this was apparent just a few months in. Stop supporting authoritarianism and get real.

unfortunately most people on this website aren't rational, and either want to be a victim or want to be a hero, and view the current state of affairs as their chance to fill that mold.

[deleted]

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#512

Post by puszczyk »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #352
motiejus wrote: post #200

I am Lithuanian; Lithuania Taiwan PRC conflict is frequently a topic of discussion these days among my peers. My position, shared by a few others, is that this is the next best thing that happened in Lithuania after leaving USSR: the first being joining NATO and EU in 2004. Everyone in the world can (and almost everyone do) endorse PRC. "You won't get fired for picking IBM/Oracle/PRC". While very few countries have t…

I think we should not be overly naive and idealistic when it comes to international relations. A country's course of action is weighted in order to advance national interests. In the context of tensions with Russia and Belarus it seems likely that Lithuania is getting something out of its stance against China from the US.

I think historically HN was mostly immune to FUD. Hope this is still the case.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#513

Post by notpachet »

satronaut wrote: post #498
sfe22 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. I think we have been warned more than enough. You afraid? Stay at home and lock down. (Didn’t stay home and) got sick? Your problem if no space is available. Split hospitals 50% covid and continue the rest as usual with limited capacity. We cannot control covid anymore and this was apparent just a few months in. Stop supporting authoritarianism and get real.

unfortunately most people on this website aren't rational, and either want to be a victim or want to be a hero, and view the current state of affairs as their chance to fill that mold.

I believe this comment says more about yourself than it does about others.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#514

Post by satronaut »

notpachet wrote: post #505
satronaut wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should go where ever their doctor tells them to go. But quite frankly I don't see cancer patients going to bars/resturants/clubs etc. This includes the world prior to 2020

But they're going to the same grocery stores as the rest of us. Often they have to ride public transport to get to their appointments. And so on. Thinking that this is just a matter of people's social enjoyment is naive.

I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this. You clearly forgot what life was like before the news scared us into shutting down and will never feel comfortable operating in society again. That's fine, but don't bring others down with you.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#515

Post by puszczyk »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #502
motiejus wrote: post #200

I am Lithuanian; Lithuania Taiwan PRC conflict is frequently a topic of discussion these days among my peers. My position, shared by a few others, is that this is the next best thing that happened in Lithuania after leaving USSR: the first being joining NATO and EU in 2004. Everyone in the world can (and almost everyone do) endorse PRC. "You won't get fired for picking IBM/Oracle/PRC". While very few countries have t…

While I generally think the EU should have a deeper relationship with Taiwan, I disagree with your interpretation of what happened here. Lithuania has weak trade relations with the PRC in the first place, and got basically paid by the US to provoke the PRC. The EU having no coordinated foreign policy, but being supposed to show solidarity is ill equipped to react to a member state just going of the rails, and this no…

> Lithuania … got basically paid by the US to provoke the PRC

Any links on that?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#516

Post by FooBarWidget »

stale2002 wrote: post #460
FooBarWidget wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that whether the west thinks the Chinese ought to think that way, is not very important. People can debate that all day long, but at the end of the day the Chinese do think that way, and they are willing to fight for it. This has strategical implications. Do we want to grandstand or do we want to actually solve a problem? If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force…

> and they are willing to fight for it. No, they aren't. China has been making empty threats for literally decades. Yes, I am sure they will throw around more empty threats and not follow through on them. But this "red line" thing is just internal propaganda that they never actually follow through on. It is time the rest of the world stops pretending.

That's because Taiwan had maintained the One China Policy. This worked very very well for decades. It's only recently when they are becoming more serious about true independence that things are souring.

Furthermore, China can no longer afford to use empty threats when US warships are inceasingly sailing in China's backyard. Things weren't so militarily contested before.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#517

Post by dustintrex »

luckylion wrote: post #242
dustintrex wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I don't believe West Germany ever formally recognized East Germany. The closest was allowing a state visit from Honecker in 1987.

They signed an agreement in the early 70ies ("Grundlagenvertrag") outlining their relationships and had mutual defacto-embassies ("Ständige Vertretung") and called the heads of those ambassadors (at least the GDR did, I believe the FRG did not, but they were ambassadors for all intents and purposes).

That does not sound hugely different from China and Taiwan, which, despite the bluster, also de facto recognize each other in all sorts of ways like having quasi-diplomatic representatives, issuing travel documents to each other's citizens, etc.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#518

Post by bakuninsbart »

puszczyk wrote: post #515
bakuninsbart wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I generally think the EU should have a deeper relationship with Taiwan, I disagree with your interpretation of what happened here. Lithuania has weak trade relations with the PRC in the first place, and got basically paid by the US to provoke the PRC. The EU having no coordinated foreign policy, but being supposed to show solidarity is ill equipped to react to a member state just going of the rails, and this no…

> Lithuania … got basically paid by the US to provoke the PRC Any links on that?

https://www.reuters.com/business/lithuania-get-us-trade-supp...

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#519

Post by sfe22 »

notpachet wrote: post #415
sfe22 wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it is very hard to argue against this. Do you mean to say that people should not be able to decide what is more important to them so that resources can be appropriately allocated?

> Well it is very hard to argue against this. That wasn't why I was struggling. I was struggling because I deem it a very heartless argument, and I don't know how to have meaningful conversations with people when they don't seem to have the good of their fellow citizens at heart. The free economy can function as both an instrument of liberation and oppression depending on your place in society. It is not a universal…

Ok, so people are too stupid to decide for themselves. In that case can we trust their “chosen” leaders? You know they may be too stupid to pick a good leader too. Monarchy sound good?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#520

Post by FooBarWidget »

stickfigure wrote: post #294
FooBarWidget wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that whether the west thinks the Chinese ought to think that way, is not very important. People can debate that all day long, but at the end of the day the Chinese do think that way, and they are willing to fight for it. This has strategical implications. Do we want to grandstand or do we want to actually solve a problem? If we want to grandstand at all cost, then we have to wage war with China and force…

Taiwan is already an independent nation by all measures that anyone really cares about; the status quo is to their advantage. If China wants to change this, they are going to have to wage war by sending ships across the strait. Maybe the Taiwanese can defend their nation mostly by themselves; amphibious assault is not easy, even for major world powers. Even more difficult with satellites watching your (extensive) pre…

China does not have that much of a problem with the status quo. The status quo with the One China Policy has worked very well for decades. In fact, 2015, right before the DPP got to power, could be regarded as the height of cross-straight relations. Things only started going sour after the DPP started making moves towards true independence, and after the US sent increasing numbers of warships to China's back yard.

It is not China that is deviating from the status quo.

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