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Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

medrxiv.org

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Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#191

Post by AnthonyMouse »

gopher_space wrote: post #181
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bankrupt in both their pedagogy and their budgets The budget woes are a myth. The US spends more on education than most other countries in exchange for middle of the pack results comparable to less developed countries with far lower budgets. The main budgetary problem is bureaucratic. The schools get more than enough money, but the teachers aren't the ones who decide how to spend it, so a teacher who wants more sch…

> The budget woes are a myth. The US spends more on education than most other countries in exchange for middle of the pack results comparable to less developed countries with far lower budgets. Educational spending covers a different set of domains in the US than it does in other countries. There's a lot of backfill in the social services area, for example.

That doesn't mean schools are under-funded. If it's true it implies schools are over-funded and some of their budgets should be transferred to social services.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#192

Post by mensetmanusman »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #176
sirspacey wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: was intended as response to a reply to this. Appreciate the caution. We took a different approach. Unlimited screen time. Our daughter’s rate of learning is incredible. She willingly explores IRL play. No battles when we ask her to put down her iPad. Roblox and Minecraft are our shared playtime. I was homeschooled with no TV. My experience of her development is similar to what I experienced with my siblings. A…

> bankrupt in both their pedagogy and their budgets The budget woes are a myth. The US spends more on education than most other countries in exchange for middle of the pack results comparable to less developed countries with far lower budgets. The main budgetary problem is bureaucratic. The schools get more than enough money, but the teachers aren't the ones who decide how to spend it, so a teacher who wants more sch…

The U.S. asks the schools (and prisons) to deal with all societal ills. Many country filter their non-university bound population prior, and this saves a lot of wasted cost.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#193

Post by Jarwain »

mandmandam wrote: post #33
dessant wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will manage just fine, because they are exposed to enough maskless people at home and in other social settings. And even in schools, kids often don't follow mask mandates, especially when the teacher steps out, or sets an example by wearing a chin diaper during class.

> They will manage just fine because they are exposed to enough maskless people at home and in other social settings The wealthy kids have that opportunity. Kids with natural social skills may be fine too. However, kids with two parents that are working 4 jobs won't reach their full potential. Many kids already have issues from this; and it's awful that their voices and their parents voices - and their psychologists…

This might sound a little callous, but I wonder if it's a long term net positive.

In the short term, it's a detriment; they will have to struggle more and will encounter more difficulties in socialization. But that's not necessarily a Unique problem, there have always been kids with these kinds of problems, if not at this rate. And on this short term we're decreasing mortality from covid and hopefully keeping hospital resources available to minimize mortality from other causes.

Over the long term, decreased mortality is generally a net societal gain. An increase of people with issues socializing will result in an increase in the market for solutions, tools, community, and support that help with this kind of problem. These solutions would help both the pandemic babies And those who would normally struggle, and would be available to future generations too!

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#194

Post by astrange »

giantg2 wrote: post #143
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> using a modernist mindset Would be curious to see data on this. I most frequently see an emotional appeal against authority, vague anxieties and fears and/or slippery slope arguments.

Use of rational language does not mean that the conclusion is reasonable, nor free of fallacy. For example, people saying the covid shot interferes with long term immunity is rational and modern, just not based in fact (or misapplying fact).

There are mechanisms that could cause that (“original antigenic sin”) and it does happen with dengue fever. Of course, it’s not true here, but it was reasonable to think it might be in 2020.

And covid vaccines being spike-only may be less effective against variants than whole-virus vaccines or actual infections. But flu shots manage to be ineffective a year later with whole viruses in them, so maybe that wouldn’t help.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#195

Post by brnaftr184 »

zoomablemind wrote: post #167

> ...Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance In the COVID-19 pandemic means we're talking about 2yr old toddlers and younger. Assessing toddler's cognitive abilities is not trivial by any means, let alone using it as a basis for far-fetched projections. So first thing that comes to mind is sampling approach. Also a factor is a degree of social interaction, as it got harder to ke…

You're assuming linearity, which is almost certainly not the case over the span of a human lifetime. Catching up is going to require a lot of investment from a lot of different people over a long period of time, and in many cases will probably fail, and from what the evidence in this particular study shows is that the high impact group so happens to be (predictably) those of lower SES - read that as the poor get poorer.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#196

Post by orangepurple »

dools wrote: post #166
nitrogen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

their goal is simply to not be told what to do The urge to resist force is a vital element of US culture as a check on runaway governments. You see it in many movements, on both sides for or against. Women don't want to be forced to carry a baby. LGBT community doesn't want to be forced to hide. Christians don't want to be forced to stop praying in school. Non-Christians don't want to be forced to listen to prayers i…

The comparison of abortion with vaccination is a horrendous piece of libertarian propaganda. No one is strapping people down and injecting them with a vaccine, it’s not a forced medical procedure. However the involvement in certain activities by the unvaccinated is limited and this is similar to many other public health orders such as not being able to smoke inside a restaurant.

Correct, nobody is strapping people down and injecting them with a vaccine. Instead, they are merely withholding your ability to purchase food and avoid repossession of your shelter if they aren't vaccinated.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#197

Post by mnd999 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #176
sirspacey wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: was intended as response to a reply to this. Appreciate the caution. We took a different approach. Unlimited screen time. Our daughter’s rate of learning is incredible. She willingly explores IRL play. No battles when we ask her to put down her iPad. Roblox and Minecraft are our shared playtime. I was homeschooled with no TV. My experience of her development is similar to what I experienced with my siblings. A…

> bankrupt in both their pedagogy and their budgets The budget woes are a myth. The US spends more on education than most other countries in exchange for middle of the pack results comparable to less developed countries with far lower budgets. The main budgetary problem is bureaucratic. The schools get more than enough money, but the teachers aren't the ones who decide how to spend it, so a teacher who wants more sch…

So basically a deregulated, market based approach. This will work great in wealthy areas with good schools with educated and supportive parents.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#198

Post by gopher_space »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #191
gopher_space wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The budget woes are a myth. The US spends more on education than most other countries in exchange for middle of the pack results comparable to less developed countries with far lower budgets. Educational spending covers a different set of domains in the US than it does in other countries. There's a lot of backfill in the social services area, for example.

That doesn't mean schools are under-funded. If it's true it implies schools are over-funded and some of their budgets should be transferred to social services.

What it means is that you can't compare funding between the US and other countries.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#199

Post by VeninVidiaVicii »

xxpor wrote: post #44
colordrops wrote: post #10

At this point in the pandemic we've should have come up with models that factor in the externalities of lockdown and factor that into policy decisions. That somehow still hasn't happened. People say "things are pretty much back to normal" but parents with kids in school know this is not true.

Half the problem is no one has actually expressed a goal we're working towards. Covid isn't going to go away (at least not for a while), which I think everyone at least implicitly accepts at this point. The people who are going to get vaccinated largely have (especially in a few months with the OSHA rule + booster rollout). So what are we even doing?

> the problem is no one has actually expressed a goal we're working towards

I hadn't thought about this explicitly but I'd also say this is most of the problem. Working in academia, some facet of our policies changes on a daily basis in knee-jerk reactions. Worse yet, my area of research is infectious disease and I imagine this must be how climate scientists feel when policy decisions just get drawn out with no goal.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#200

Post by erikerikson »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #191
gopher_space wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The budget woes are a myth. The US spends more on education than most other countries in exchange for middle of the pack results comparable to less developed countries with far lower budgets. Educational spending covers a different set of domains in the US than it does in other countries. There's a lot of backfill in the social services area, for example.

That doesn't mean schools are under-funded. If it's true it implies schools are over-funded and some of their budgets should be transferred to social services.

Yes, well, and that would require a willingness to maximize the population.
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