Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#61

Post by paulryanrogers » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

throwaway_2009 wrote: post #35

paulryanrogers wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who support lockdowns aren't interested in facts; their viewpoints are shaped by marketing. Sweeping generalizations aren't really adding to the discussion here. Please assume the best of others. We're all trying to find the best way forward with incomplete information. And tying ideas too closely to ones identity, or that of others, won't help us adapt as more evidence come to light.

Strongly disagree. People who call for authoritarian measures such as using force in order to prevent people from leaving their homes, from associating with friends and family, and from engaging in business, should not have the best assumed of them. They have malicious intentions a priori because they treat controlling others with the same level of discipline as they would choosing which flavour of jam to put on thei…

> They have malicious intentions a priori because they treat controlling others with the same level of discipline as they would choosing which flavour of jam to put on their toast in the morning.

Not everyone advocating lockdowns is necessarily so flippant about it. Some consider the costs carefully. Please keep in mind that hospitals were being overwhelmed long before vaccines were available.

(FWIW I'm not defending absolute lockdowns since going outside with moderate distancing appears to have been safe at every stage of this phenomenon.)

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#62

Post by bryan0 » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #10

At this point in the pandemic we've should have come up with models that factor in the externalities of lockdown and factor that into policy decisions. That somehow still hasn't happened. People say "things are pretty much back to normal" but parents with kids in school know this is not true.

> At this point in the pandemic we've should have come up with models that factor in the externalities of lockdown and factor that into policy decisions. That somehow still hasn't happened.

What makes you think it hasn’t? I’m sure all lockdown decision makers are looking at these models along with models of hospital capacity.

> People say "things are pretty much back to normal" but parents with kids in school know this is not true.

My kids school life has basically gone back to normal and has been all year. It’s my WFH situation that is never “going back to normal” but I think that’s a positive.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#63

Post by coldcode » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #10

At this point in the pandemic we've should have come up with models that factor in the externalities of lockdown and factor that into policy decisions. That somehow still hasn't happened. People say "things are pretty much back to normal" but parents with kids in school know this is not true.

Children born during the pandemic are not yet in school. This research makes little sense, measuring cognitive differences of 2 year olds is highly unlikely to be meaningful.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#64

Post by willhinsa » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

bryan0 wrote: post #62

colordrops wrote: post #10

At this point in the pandemic we've should have come up with models that factor in the externalities of lockdown and factor that into policy decisions. That somehow still hasn't happened. People say "things are pretty much back to normal" but parents with kids in school know this is not true.

> At this point in the pandemic we've should have come up with models that factor in the externalities of lockdown and factor that into policy decisions. That somehow still hasn't happened. What makes you think it hasn’t? I’m sure all lockdown decision makers are looking at these models along with models of hospital capacity. > People say "things are pretty much back to normal" but parents with kids in school know th…

> Basically gone back to normal

Do they have to wear masks? Do they have to socially distance?

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#65

Post by riku_iki » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #51

fabbari wrote: post #16

Would love to see the raw data, but from their own plots you can see that 2017, 2018 and 2019 show a trend that would make the 2020 and 2021 data consistent with the trend. As they show data comparing 2020 and 2021 to the previous years, they could have shown a matrix to compare year over year across the data. I will wait for someone to look at the raw data and peer review the paper before jumping to conclusions. I'm…

I wonder what could be driving that trend.

ipad games from the very early age

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#66

Post by throwaway_2009 » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #61

throwaway_2009 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly disagree. People who call for authoritarian measures such as using force in order to prevent people from leaving their homes, from associating with friends and family, and from engaging in business, should not have the best assumed of them. They have malicious intentions a priori because they treat controlling others with the same level of discipline as they would choosing which flavour of jam to put on thei…

> They have malicious intentions a priori because they treat controlling others with the same level of discipline as they would choosing which flavour of jam to put on their toast in the morning. Not everyone advocating lockdowns is necessarily so flippant about it. Some consider the costs carefully. Please keep in mind that hospitals were being overwhelmed long before vaccines were available. (FWIW I'm not defending…

If you want to lockdown, you can lockdown, and now you are safe. You don't need others to do so, the virus does not travel through windows and walls.

As such the stance is definitionally illogical which makes it flippant - it falls apart under even mild scrutiny.

I've seen about a billion variations on it now, it just gets boring to bat them off. e.g. "if the healthcare system is overwhelmed, you'll die in a minor car crash, so don't go outside, then you won't drive your car or stand near cars, then you can't die in a minor car crash anyway, err... but lockdown though!".

It's tautologically broken. The basic premise is of "not doing X, in order to not do X".

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#67

Post by vldchk » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #51

fabbari wrote: post #16

Would love to see the raw data, but from their own plots you can see that 2017, 2018 and 2019 show a trend that would make the 2020 and 2021 data consistent with the trend. As they show data comparing 2020 and 2021 to the previous years, they could have shown a matrix to compare year over year across the data. I will wait for someone to look at the raw data and peer review the paper before jumping to conclusions. I'm…

I wonder what could be driving that trend.

I would bet on the growth of notepads and smartphone usage by children 0-2 age. There are evidences that electronics and smart screens are destructive for the cognitive development of infants, while they are super easy to adopt by lazy parents.

Click on some YTube show and baby won’t bother you for the next hour or two.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#68

Post by dnautics » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #10

At this point in the pandemic we've should have come up with models that factor in the externalities of lockdown and factor that into policy decisions. That somehow still hasn't happened. People say "things are pretty much back to normal" but parents with kids in school know this is not true.

Unless I'm missing something, "Kids born during pandemic" would not be affected by school closures. If anything, having more parents stay at home with kids, I'd expect to result in better outcomes,though maybe I'm giving parents too much credit.

Honestly, I'd suspect that parents are around kids more and noticing and reporting more.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#69

Post by jstanley » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #55

enkid wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're just going to make vague allusions to some great evil being done while providing no data? Have you thought about why you get flagged when you discuss this topic?

Is it so much to ask for others to connect the dots? What else am I do to when providing authoritative or academic information puts my account at risk? And yes, there are many commingling factors for why I get flagged, none of which I consider valid. I can provide links to information straight from the horse's mouth, have done so in the past, and it never matters. The vast majority of people have a knee-jerk aversion…

> Is it so much to ask for others to connect the dots?

> ...

> It depends on what you consider evil. In this context, I've yet to use such a term. Already, it sounds like you're imagining I suggested some grand conspiracy.

Perhaps if you connected your own dots rather than asking others to do it for you, they might not make connections that you didn't intend.

Re: Children born in the pandemic have significantly reduced cognitive performance [pdf]

#70

Post by bryan0 » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

xxpor wrote: post #44

colordrops wrote: post #10

At this point in the pandemic we've should have come up with models that factor in the externalities of lockdown and factor that into policy decisions. That somehow still hasn't happened. People say "things are pretty much back to normal" but parents with kids in school know this is not true.

Half the problem is no one has actually expressed a goal we're working towards. Covid isn't going to go away (at least not for a while), which I think everyone at least implicitly accepts at this point. The people who are going to get vaccinated largely have (especially in a few months with the OSHA rule + booster rollout). So what are we even doing?

> Half the problem is no one has actually expressed a goal we're working towards.

Yeah I don’t think the goals have been clear, even if they have been changing over time. I think the clearest goal now should be a 90% vaccination rate to turn Covid into the common cold, and then going back to life as normal, but as long as huge swathes of the population refuse to get vaccinated this goal is unattainable.

Edit: I believe Biden actually set a 70% vax goal for July 2021, and we missed it. No way we can hit 90%. I think possibly for anti-vaxers their goal is simply to not be told what to do and if they end up in an overwhelmed hospital so be it.