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Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

economist.com

261–270 of 727 posts

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#261
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't see the point or value at this stage. They control their media tightly, and if they just stopped talking about Taiwan I doubt many people in the mainland would care. They've proven they don't need Taiwan and vice versa.

+1 thanks for that, now that I think about this issue, that is the way I feel also. A few of my friends think I am overboard when I talk positively about China, but really I am just reacting to how wonderful the people there were when my wife and I travelled in China, and I also really respect their AI tech, their tech in general, and how so many people have moved out of poverty. It is just their current government t…

Governments are a reflection of the people. They're not some nebulous, abstract entity; they're literally made and run by people of each country. They're chosen–or in some cases imposed–to represent the people to the world. Even in dictatorships, it is the people that choose for governments to remain in power. When that stops being the case, governments are overthrown, and a new set of people take power.

The people of China choose to allow CCP to run their country. If they were so different ideologically the CCP would no longer exist. Countries with orders of magnitude less people struggle to remain united. The fact 1.4 billion people can be represented by the same political party speaks to the strong ideological ties that are shared by most Chinese people. I would argue that those ideologies were implanted by decades of brainwashing and totalitarianism, but how it was achieved doesn't change that fact.

So, yes, your experience and likely many others' is with good people. Countries are not exclusively bad or good. We can recognize those good traits that China has as a nation.

But it would be wrong to also not criticize the bad aspects, and sweep them under the rug as the CCP constantly tries to do. The rampant economic and moral corruption, overfishing of world's waters and general disregard for animal life and nature, disregard for human life, widespread racism and xenophobia, isolationism, etc.

These are not only governmental issues, but part of the modern Chinese culture that taints whatever good aspects we can celebrate.

Undoubtedly comparisons to the US will be made, but at least we can criticize bad US aspects (both government and cultural) openly, without random US citizens coming up with defensive arguments. The US government will persecute whistleblowers for airing its dirty laundry, but we've known that for decades.

I fear a world where the dominant superpower has such a culture and is closed to criticism—not only because of its oppressive government, but because of its people.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was no "Korean Seoul" or "German Bonn" competing at the Olympics, etc. Are you aware that both China and Taiwan claim to be the legal government of both countries? Because that's completely different from Germany or Korea, where the states recognized each other.

The two Koreas also claim to be the government of the entire Korean Peninsula as well. Both countries have their "Reunification Ministry" There have been meetings between the two sides, but that's a far cry from diplomatic recognition.

Taiwan officially withdrew from UN so that there won't be two China. Of course, it happened when Taiwan was militarily more advanced than China.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#264
post #167
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, it is often ignored that combined EU does possess a huge, highly advanced and well trained military force. So more than that I'd hope EU can then put its squabbling aside and respong in unison to any military provocation as well.

I 'd say that the EU armies look better in paper than they would in practice. One example is that several EU armies running out of precision bombs relatively early into the Libyan intervention [1]. [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nato-runs-short-on-some...

And land armies without tanks! Last I heard the Netherlands had sold off all of theirs :/

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#265
post #4

There is a simple solution. If most of western world allowed Taiwan embassies China would have to relent. They can't afford having entire western world stand against them. Unfortunately, that would require western nations to agree on something.

I think you greatly underestimates what Taiwan means to China. People in the west are quick to dismiss any claims by China on Taiwan as having any legitimacy, viewing it purely as expansionism. But regardless of whether the western view of that is right (or ought to be right), the Chinese don't view it that way: they view it as a sovereignty issue, as an unfinished part of the Chinese civil war, and as part of the US…

> China would rather fight the entire western world than to let Taiwan go.

They already do. But now they do it via trade wars, strongly worded letters, Olympic boycotts. They ensure that the fight is China vs the enemy of the day (Today Lithuania). It’s unbalanced. The “fight” vs the whole world wouldn’t be a hot war. It would be a more balanced diplomatic and economic conflict where China can’t bully one state at a time.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#266
post #218

> packages(/containers) from PRC are delayed or cancelled, invoices are not being paid, we are losing business there I think the whole western world should stop playing games with the bully state that is PRC.

Who is China bullying except it’s own people?

Look to their diplomatic behavior around the South China Sea for the last couple of decades.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#267
post #218

> packages(/containers) from PRC are delayed or cancelled, invoices are not being paid, we are losing business there I think the whole western world should stop playing games with the bully state that is PRC.

Who is China bullying except it’s own people?

Lithuania?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#268
post #218

> packages(/containers) from PRC are delayed or cancelled, invoices are not being paid, we are losing business there I think the whole western world should stop playing games with the bully state that is PRC.

Who is China bullying except it’s own people?

The Uigurs, for instance.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#269
post #78

Hope this Russian-Ukraine tensions, also China-Taiwan tensions will open eyes of western world like it happened with Europe during WWII. Collapse of Soviet Union influenced western world badly. They relaxed and eased requirements whom to work with. We need at least to introduce tyranny tax, same as carbon tax. That will give a good boost of local economies also gives a proper signal to the entire world.

You are assuming you are the good guy, that's not how the world works.

Everyone assumes they are the good guy. That’s exactly how the world works, right?

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xi spent multiple years living (correction, only a few weeks) in the US. You are off the mark. There are other, much more complex reasons in play.

Hsi Chinping only spent 2 weeks in US on a work trip. There are no complex reasons at play.

It is true, he did not spend a few years, I misremembered.

Still, this is not from a lack of understanding of the West. There a lot of complex strategic factors that mean that China cannot abandon the idea of holding Taiwan, which means either war or the One China Policy, which requires the behaviour we're seeing now.

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