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Why Wolfram tech isn’t open source (2019)

blog.wolfram.com

61–70 of 316 posts

Re: Why Wolfram tech isn’t open source (2019)

#61
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you just release the source and don't accept patches then that's not real open source this is commonly referred to as "source available".

Source available is specifically if the code is not under an open source license. Whereas software that is under an OS license is open source, whatever the maintainers policy on contributions.

ah, you're right. i missed that.

Re: Why Wolfram tech isn’t open source (2019)

#62

Quoting from the blog post. But Wolfram’s vision for computation is much more profound—to unify and automate computation across computational fields, application areas, user types, interfaces and deployments. The problem with Wolfram Tech is the above objective can be done by doing one thing and is improving developer ergonomics. I would say that the Wolfram Language would need a complete overhaul. When I was using i…

Heaven forbid more researchers and people fluent in tek took the time to learn to code better rather than moan they can't input maths symbols into the keyboard...

I'd love to see basic computing taught alongside algebra but apparently "thats too difficult"...

Re: Why Wolfram tech isn’t open source (2019)

#63
post #21

Most of these are about wanting control over the design of the software - but releasing their code doesn't have any impact on that - I don't get it? Java is open source - Oracle still tightly controls and manages the design of Java. For example 'Bad design is expensive' - how releasing your source lead to bad design? That's a complete non-sequitur.

They are arguing it does have impact on that. The company that created Java went out of business and was sold to Oracle for a fraction of its original worth. So Java was a business failure -- or at least I'd be interested to see someone defend Java as a business success. So I think it's realistic to at least engage with their argument seriously rather than dismiss it. The argument is that open source licenses are inc…

If their argument is that they can't make money with open source, then they should say that, instead of this list of non sequitors.

Re: Why Wolfram tech isn’t open source (2019)

#65
Most points are actually about community driven software more than open source. Not all of open source is community driven. Opening the source is just that, making the source code available, you don't have to accept pull requests or let anyone else decide what to do. Qt for instance is not community driven, and because it is dual-licensed, it can't be.

The other arguments are more acceptable: we want to make money and we think opening the source goes in the way. I don't like it but I understand.

Re: Why Wolfram tech isn’t open source (2019)

#66
post #21

Most of these are about wanting control over the design of the software - but releasing their code doesn't have any impact on that - I don't get it? Java is open source - Oracle still tightly controls and manages the design of Java. For example 'Bad design is expensive' - how releasing your source lead to bad design? That's a complete non-sequitur.

They are arguing it does have impact on that. The company that created Java went out of business and was sold to Oracle for a fraction of its original worth. So Java was a business failure -- or at least I'd be interested to see someone defend Java as a business success. So I think it's realistic to at least engage with their argument seriously rather than dismiss it. The argument is that open source licenses are inc…

> The argument is that open source licenses are incompatible with the kind paid license they're offering their customers.

I don’t see them making that argument in all these points.

For example they say

> Crowd-sourced decisions can be bad for you

Well ok that’s a valid point so… don’t do that. Crowd sourcing design decisions or code is not a fundamental part of open source. You can have open source but do all the development internally if you want to.

I think they’re confusing source licensing with a development methodology.

Re: Why Wolfram tech isn’t open source (2019)

#67
post #28

TLDR: some types of software needs more than programming. omitted TLDR: some of the above can only be done by paying people money to do them. Company needs income for that. omitted exibit: why haven't Gimp thrown Photoshop, Pixelmater and others from the throne. If programmers were the only people needed, then all those commercial image editors would be gone from the market. (but a unix shell only needs programming b…

Blender is a counter example. They prioritized UX and are now eating into commercial use cases.

They’re also being subsidized by billion dollar organizations.

Re: Why Wolfram tech isn’t open source (2019)

#68

This is just the usual "proprietary software is higher quality, we swear". Accurately voicing my thoughts on this would probably go against the HN guidelines, so I'll just let this sentence from the article speak for itself: >But our vision is a grand one—unify all of computation into a single coherent language, and for that, the FOSS development model is not well suited. Well, good luck with that.

I don't think they're wrong. Open source does not work with product management. There will always be friction with what is on the roadmap vs what the community wants to add. Additionally, if Wolfram wants to monetize it somehow, they have to own supporting it--including the contributions that they don't necessarily want. If they anger the community, then the community forks the project and Wolfram loses complete control or is in the same place they were before they open sourced it (but now their IP is gone). I don't see how they (Wolfram) benefit from FOSS at this point.

Re: Why Wolfram tech isn’t open source (2019)

#69

> Paid software offers an open quid pro quo This section points out a valid problem with business models based on open source, but closing the source and requiring payment doesn't inherently solve the problem. In fact, closing the source, which is the usual means of enforcing the paid license, introduces another problem: the developer could be doing something nefarious in addition to requiring payment, and it would b…

In fact it's not about "payment" or "paid". The opposite of opensource is proprietary, not "paid". You can pay for FLOSS.

Re: Why Wolfram tech isn’t open source (2019)

#70
post #28

TLDR: some types of software needs more than programming. omitted TLDR: some of the above can only be done by paying people money to do them. Company needs income for that. omitted exibit: why haven't Gimp thrown Photoshop, Pixelmater and others from the throne. If programmers were the only people needed, then all those commercial image editors would be gone from the market. (but a unix shell only needs programming b…

Blender is a counter example. They prioritized UX and are now eating into commercial use cases.

I love blender. Ironically, I remember when blender was a commercial project and they agreed to open source it if they reached a certain amount of donations.

The quality of it might be because some real company was using the project to do daily work (even before the ui overhaul).

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