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CCPA Scam – Human subject research study conducted by Princeton University

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Re: CCPA Scam – Human subject research study conducted by Princeton University

#71
post #20

Serious question: why should academic institutions be held to a higher standard than commercial ones? Google and Facebook, to just name two, routinely perform human subject research without informed consent as a matter of course. That's what A/B testing is. Ethically speaking the fine print in the ToS obviously isn't actually informed consent, even if the law says it is. I don't see why being a for-profit company sho…

Anyone can behave like an evil profit-seeking private corporation, but some organizations deliberately choose not to do that, and enjoy the resulting respect, recognition, tax benefits, and public funding that comes with it.

Also, A/B testing only happens to people who choose to interact with the corporation for a related purpose. On the other hand, when corporations go out of line, e.g. scan your address book and send invites to your friends pretending to be you, they are also demonized for that. Imagine if Facebook sent you anonymous legal threats, you think they'd get a pass?

Re: CCPA Scam – Human subject research study conducted by Princeton University

#72
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you know it's a lie?

Because he said the response was overwhelming positive at the same time that he is dealing with anxious & irate recipients of his messages.

There is such a thing as a vocal minority.

In fact it is a surprisingly common phenomenon.

Re: CCPA Scam – Human subject research study conducted by Princeton University

#73

I'm the person who wrote that blog post. I got an email from a fake person in France who asked several questions about my small social media site's CCPA compliance, then ended the letter with: > I look forward to your reply without undue delay and at most within 45 days of this email, as required by Section 1798.130 of the California Civil Code. I thought I was about to be sued by someone who was the equivalent of a…

I've met Ross during my time at Princeton and he is a really genuine person, he is not trying to ruin anyone's life. This incident is the result of an uncharacteristic blind spot in empathy: a mistake.

I also have experience with the Princeton IRB on similar topics. The reality is that Princeton's IRB, and IRBs in general, are not equipped to deal with this sort of online research. IRBs were created as a reaction to unethical medical research, in particular the Tuskegee Syphilis Study [1]. My experience has been that the IRB has a greater expertise on medical and sociological studies. This leads the IRB to having a very narrow view of its remit in other domains. Unless humans are in a very literal way "subjects" of the study, then the IRB doesn't see it as human subjects research. In this case the IRB likely saw "Free Radical" and other websites as the subject. In both my studies and those done by my peers, the responses on what is and isn't human subjects research is uneven and you will often get a generic "this study does not constitute human subjects research" response from the IRB. This can be the case even if there possible negative repercussions to the "not subjects" in your research.

For example, say your study involves testing the vulnerability disclosure policies. How well do websites respond to vuln reports? In your study you send out 100 vulnerability disclosures. After you report these vulnerabilities, a human may read your vulnerability report and make a decision based on it. This presents a risk that the individual security team employees involved in your study will be scapegoated and fired when you publish your (potentially damning) results. How do you balance the value this study provides the public against the risk to the individual employees' livelihoods? The IRB isn't going to help you do this balancing, they will just say "this isn't human subjects research".

IRBs quite simply aren't equipped to evaluate this sort of research at the moment. This can be frustrating for a young twenty-something researcher just out of college trying to do the right thing while generating impactful research. You come in thinking that the IRB will be a guiding hand of wisdom and prudence, but you are quickly disabused of that notion after most of your interactions feel like conversations with lawyers in a compliance department. Many researchers in "CS" don't even involve the IRB, because they don't always see the ethical dimension of their work, but the fact that Ross did shows that he was trying to do the right thing here.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study

Re: CCPA Scam – Human subject research study conducted by Princeton University

#74
(cross posting from my comment on the other story)

It isn't human subjects research just to read what a website says about its compliance to a law (or lack thereof), but once you start reaching out to actual humans to discuss the matter, it definitely does become human subjects research (we would categorize this as an interview or survey).

At the very least, the emails should have come with a notice that they were being sent as part of an academic study - after all, misleading your participants wasn't a goal of this study!

Re: CCPA Scam – Human subject research study conducted by Princeton University

#75

Ross Teixeira, the PhD student that did this, had the brazen nerve to post this lie on Twitter: Responses to the study have been overwhelmingly positive, and I particularly appreciate the notes of encouragement that some websites have sent. We look forward to sharing results in the coming year, with the goals of identifying best practices and informing future policy making. https://mobile.twitter.com/RossTeixeira/sta…

Would anyone be interested in organizing a class action lawsuit against Ross Teixeira and Princeton?

I think the plaintiffs would be people who spent money reacting to the emails, and I suspect Princeton may be quick to take care of those expenses to avoid further action.

I personally didn’t incur any monetary costs, just a lot of unnecessary stress.

Re: CCPA Scam – Human subject research study conducted by Princeton University

#76

I'm confused how this is human experimentation. Were they not merely collecting information on how a site handles these requests? Is it because they erroneously sent emails to sites that do not fall under the umbrella of the law they were examining? An email asking an organization for answers to questions is human experimentation? I must be missing something.

> Were they not merely collecting information on how a site handles these requests?

No. Obviously not. How could you have missed the fact that they were "collecting information" under false pretenses?

Re: CCPA Scam – Human subject research study conducted by Princeton University

#77
post #73

I'm the person who wrote that blog post. I got an email from a fake person in France who asked several questions about my small social media site's CCPA compliance, then ended the letter with: > I look forward to your reply without undue delay and at most within 45 days of this email, as required by Section 1798.130 of the California Civil Code. I thought I was about to be sued by someone who was the equivalent of a…

I've met Ross during my time at Princeton and he is a really genuine person, he is not trying to ruin anyone's life. This incident is the result of an uncharacteristic blind spot in empathy: a mistake. I also have experience with the Princeton IRB on similar topics. The reality is that Princeton's IRB, and IRBs in general, are not equipped to deal with this sort of online research. IRBs were created as a reaction to…

Quick meta-comment; this is useful and informative information about the original link - please don’t downvote because you disagree with the point of view. If you disagree, please add a comment and make HN a great place for discourse!

Re: CCPA Scam – Human subject research study conducted by Princeton University

#78
post #35
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that you were wronged by these so-called ‘researchers’, but it’s also tragic that our legal systems are so bad that everyone fears them. The legal system should be a low-stress, reliable, and predictable way to avoid or reduce conflict, instead of a weapon of terror.

What's more annoying is that the decision to construct the email as a non-academic "other person" was a CONSCIOUS decision by the research team (most likely the advisor). I don't see what benefit hiding behind the illusion gathered does for the information beyond worrying the recipients wouldn't respond to a more traditional "We are researching CCPA..." style email. IRB does allow for deception, just to be clear. Its…

Implying the law said they had to respond looks like a bigger problem to me. Some people said they wouldn't have ignored email from a researcher. So saying it was for research would have changed the responses.

Re: CCPA Scam – Human subject research study conducted by Princeton University

#80

I'm the person who wrote that blog post. I got an email from a fake person in France who asked several questions about my small social media site's CCPA compliance, then ended the letter with: > I look forward to your reply without undue delay and at most within 45 days of this email, as required by Section 1798.130 of the California Civil Code. I thought I was about to be sued by someone who was the equivalent of a…

Poignant detail: the Radboud professor that's part of this "research" has experience in dark patterns so he knows damn well what he's doing. By his own words, from his website: > I also study anonymous communication networks such as Tor, and investigate deceptive and manipulative (dark) design patterns Radboud has policies about informed consent [1] that were clearly ignored, or were explained away with the idea that…

Great advice, thanks! I’ve filed a complaint with Radboud, too.
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