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Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

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Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#21

Post by hfthrowaway »

flint wrote: post #12

What level is your degree in Math or Physics? What specialized experience do you have in programming quantitative finance applications? What specialized experienc do you have in high performance computing applications? Do you have business side experience in trading - what markets? ...So, then you know nothing of the business, nothing usefull to the developers and nothing usefull to the quant team... I'd back of the…

I mentioned in the OP its a traditional fund - not a quant shop. I have some professional experience in shipping financial trading applications.

I'm not trying to score a sweet deal here - just trying to understand the market value of someone in my shoes.

My lack of experience (defined in this thread as time I've been working) does not mean there isn't a situation that can't be considered lowball. I'm not trying to maximize my income - just want to have idea and data on the pay floor and ceilings.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#22

Post by evanmarks »

Advice that I have received that has been helpful when negotiating compensation is:

(1) A good way to dodge being the first one to give a salary number is to say that you will consider the total compensation package offered, of which the salary is just one portion.

(2) If you do get an offer and want to negotiate, but are scared that you will put them off - make sure they know from your response that you are very interested in the position and the offer, but based on your understanding of the job responsibilities and your skills were expecting something in the range of x.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#23

Post by hfthrowaway »

nyc-throwaway wrote: post #13

Question for you, if you don't mind. How did you get to this point, where you have a job offer? I am also self-taught with 0 professional experience in NYC and would like to be in your shoes.

Sure, do you have a throwaway email? Put it in your profile, and I'll shoot you an email.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#24

Post by Maro »

In this part of the world (Hungary), if you say "I want to make between $X and $Y", it translates to "I'll work for $X". Assuming $X is sensible, they will offer you $X minus 20-30% (sometimes even 50%). You can try to negotiate, though BigCos won't negotiate with a junior guy. Also, negotation is a tough art, and the person at the other end is much better than you, and is holding all the cards. You want the job real bad, but he probably doesn't want you real bad.

This doesn't apply if you're special, but if you're a junior, you're not.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#25

Post by hfthrowaway »

earle wrote: post #7

You have basically no practical experience, and you're worried about getting "fair compensation" for this job? You should be taking this job to absorb as much practical experience and knowledge you can get -- thats the opportunity for you; not some mediocre paycheck.

I'll take the job with the best experience/learning curve, coworkers, and future growth. I'm not worried about maximizing salary - I'm just trying to establish floor and ceilings for what to expect.

I think the fact its in finance is what skews things. I'm very frugal, so I don't want to feel as if I made out like a bandit when in fact I really got something below market rate.

Doesn't mean I won't take something below market rate, but I'd like to have that information when I evaluate an offer.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#26

Post by kposehn »

rumpelstiltskin wrote: post #18
kposehn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Never shortchange yourself - ever. If you have a low current salary, state that you need a significant boost. If the potential employer knows how low yours is, you'll see just what they consider a significant boost then. That increase will tell you a lot. Are they thinking you're not worth much because of the low salary and give you a small boost? Then they probably won't pay you well no matter what. If t…

Never shortchange yourself - ever. Right. Shortchange the company instead. OP, considering your virtually nonexistent professional experience, I'd take the job regardless of the salary and focus on learning as much as I can. Ignore the money for a couple years. Then bump up to a higher payscale, either at the same company or jumping ship to a different one.

> Right. Shortchange the company instead.

I don't mean shortchange the company. I mean don't shortchange yourself.

@OP, If you accept less than you are worth people will continue to offer you exactly that. I don't mean be unreasonable; I mean don't accept the age-old argument "oh, but you'll get experience".

Even when you are starting out, stand up for what you are worth. You won't regret it.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#27

Post by Maro »

hfthrowaway wrote: post #25
earle wrote: post #7

You have basically no practical experience, and you're worried about getting "fair compensation" for this job? You should be taking this job to absorb as much practical experience and knowledge you can get -- thats the opportunity for you; not some mediocre paycheck.

I'll take the job with the best experience/learning curve, coworkers, and future growth. I'm not worried about maximizing salary - I'm just trying to establish floor and ceilings for what to expect. I think the fact its in finance is what skews things. I'm very frugal, so I don't want to feel as if I made out like a bandit when in fact I really got something below market rate. Doesn't mean I won't take something belo…

The promise of money may be fuzzying your logic.

Finance is a domain with a lot of money. So, if you have domain knowledge and can help the firm make a lot of money, you can make a lot of money too. But if you don't, don't expect a dime more than at another company. In fact, they may pay you less, in return for gaining the domain knowledge, which you can later turn into a lot of money.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#28

Post by nyc-throwaway »

hfthrowaway wrote: post #23
nyc-throwaway wrote: post #13

Question for you, if you don't mind. How did you get to this point, where you have a job offer? I am also self-taught with 0 professional experience in NYC and would like to be in your shoes.

Sure, do you have a throwaway email? Put it in your profile, and I'll shoot you an email.

done. thx.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#29

Post by hfthrowaway »

kposehn wrote: post #26
rumpelstiltskin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never shortchange yourself - ever. Right. Shortchange the company instead. OP, considering your virtually nonexistent professional experience, I'd take the job regardless of the salary and focus on learning as much as I can. Ignore the money for a couple years. Then bump up to a higher payscale, either at the same company or jumping ship to a different one.

> Right. Shortchange the company instead. I don't mean shortchange the company. I mean don't shortchange yourself. @OP, If you accept less than you are worth people will continue to offer you exactly that. I don't mean be unreasonable; I mean don't accept the age-old argument "oh, but you'll get experience". Even when you are starting out, stand up for what you are worth. You won't regret it.

Thanks. I see it both ways, and agree with both you and rumpelstiltskin.

My current job pays abysmally low, but it offered great experience when I didn't have any. And I'm getting more interesting opportunities now because of it.

So now I can afford to be a little less desperate.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#30

Post by kposehn »

hfthrowaway wrote: post #29
kposehn wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right. Shortchange the company instead. I don't mean shortchange the company. I mean don't shortchange yourself. @OP, If you accept less than you are worth people will continue to offer you exactly that. I don't mean be unreasonable; I mean don't accept the age-old argument "oh, but you'll get experience". Even when you are starting out, stand up for what you are worth. You won't regret it.

Thanks. I see it both ways, and agree with both you and rumpelstiltskin. My current job pays abysmally low, but it offered great experience when I didn't have any. And I'm getting more interesting opportunities now because of it. So now I can afford to be a little less desperate.

Good! Glad you can move onward and upward. I just hate to see people keep limiting themselves :)
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