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President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

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Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#781

Post by stelonix »

someguydave wrote: post #266
stelonix wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only have to look at this very website to see the same happening with US citizens' support for their government's chosen narrative. It bodes poorly for Puerto Rico, Cuba, Nicaragua and every other nation who had military juntas propped up by the USG and still suffer from american influence. Some will go to great lengths to foment hatred against whistleblowers, such as Assange or Snowden.

The US governemnt is inept and oppressive in its ways, but you are acting exactly as a hostile foreign agent would, stirring up strife and making exaggerated equivocations to create division.

From my point of view, being a foreigner to US citizens, it's the USG stirring strife, exaggerated equivocations like the Uygur genocide fiasco... All in an attempt to create division and weaken their adversaries. It goes both ways, the US doesn't get to be morally in a higher ground when you do the same things (or worse) as the people you're accusing. If you cut down on the jingoism, it's 2 global superpowers in a geopolitical battle, and that's the only objective view.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#782

Post by [deleted] »

gtirloni wrote: post #201

I worked with people from China at a previous job. They came to visit us (South America) and while having dinner I lightly suggested things in China are difficult when it comes to freedom, right? Their facial expression changed immediately. They said it was better not to talk about that. They were who knows how many kilometers from home, not a single Chinese national around to report them, and they still feared talki…

[deleted]

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#783

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

siculars wrote: post #748
bllguo wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is exactly the white savior crap that much of the world hates from the US. the sheer arrogance to think that even a significant fraction of Taiwanese would be interested in moving to America, let alone the entire populace. And then the gall to suggest _Ohio, the Mojave, and Alaska_. Bit on the nose, don't you think? I don't understand how you think this rhetoric helps anyone. I guess it lets Americans puff out t…

No, no, this is about exactly right. When the CCP comes for Taiwan, the exodus will be on a scale unseen in our generation. It seems your family history has been blessed to not know this sort of existential crisis. For generations now, The US of America is, actually and literally, viewed as the land of salvation and opportunity for millions of people around the world. Do not pretend that it is not.

This is something we can actually measure with polling.

750 million people worldwide wanted to migrate as of 2017: https://news.gallup.com/poll/245255/750-million-worldwide-mi...

Of those, the US is the most frequent top preferred destination, at 21% or 158 million.

Gallup also publishes a Potential Net Migration Index for each country, which finds that net 17% of Taiwan would like to leave, including 25% of the youth. This data is from 2015-2017.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#784

Post by BLKNSLVR »

chmod600 wrote: post #779
chernevik wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said: "In my world there's always a place for you; you can disagree with me; you can even insult me; I will not fire back because that is your freedom of expression, however In your world there's no place for me; you want to eliminate me and even my family from the world just because I disagree with your government or your ideology; this is puzzling isn't it?"

Does that mean freedom is self-defeating? It comes down to a simple formula: are people learning and appreciating freedom faster than it's being diluted by people who are ignorant or disdainful of freedom? There's no fundamental reason one rate must remain above the other. Education, immigration trends, business, and culture all play a part. But once the anti-freedom are greater in number than the pro-freedom, then f…

I believe the answer is 'yes' and it's also true for most 'noble' causes.

Analogous to this quote from George Bernard Shaw:

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man ."

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#785

Post by dragonwriter »

bllguo wrote: post #721
vaxman wrote: post #637

Quoted post unavailable.

this is exactly the white savior crap that much of the world hates from the US. the sheer arrogance to think that even a significant fraction of Taiwanese would be interested in moving to America, let alone the entire populace. And then the gall to suggest _Ohio, the Mojave, and Alaska_. Bit on the nose, don't you think? I don't understand how you think this rhetoric helps anyone. I guess it lets Americans puff out t…

> this is exactly the white savior crap

Really, it's a lot worse; White savior crap usually has at least a couple levels of indirection between it and the outright ethnically-stereotyped economic exploitation of the “beneficiaries”. (To be fair, the latter does usually end up accompanying it, but usually not as an overt part of the initial sales pitch.)

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#786

Post by dragonwriter »

fdschoeneman wrote: post #778
bllguo wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is exactly the white savior crap that much of the world hates from the US. the sheer arrogance to think that even a significant fraction of Taiwanese would be interested in moving to America, let alone the entire populace. And then the gall to suggest _Ohio, the Mojave, and Alaska_. Bit on the nose, don't you think? I don't understand how you think this rhetoric helps anyone. I guess it lets Americans puff out t…

Calling someone you disagree with a racist is unhelpful.

No post body was provided.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#787

Post by filoleg »

bllguo wrote: post #760
siculars wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, no, this is about exactly right. When the CCP comes for Taiwan, the exodus will be on a scale unseen in our generation. It seems your family history has been blessed to not know this sort of existential crisis. For generations now, The US of America is, actually and literally, viewed as the land of salvation and opportunity for millions of people around the world. Do not pretend that it is not.

your appeal to emotion rings hollow. Did I deny that? My family viewed the US as such in the past. No longer, I can assure you. It is precisely because we have experienced life in the US and Asia that I feel that I can actually comment on this topic. If you seriously think millions of Taiwanese think this of America I would love to see your reaction when you travel there. Ohio, the Mojave, Alaska. Insulting on a whol…

> If you seriously think millions of Taiwanese think this of America I would love to see your reaction when you travel there.

Whether intentionally or not, I think you are misreading the parent comment.

They never claimed that this is how the Taiwanese population views the US now. They are claiming that this is how they are very likely to start viewing the US when/if CCP starts marching towards Taiwan. Those two statements are very different.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#788

Post by fartcannon »

ddoolin wrote: post #752
rackjack wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese government has seeped its way into nearly every facet of American life. This is most visible in Disney movies (see: the Mulan and Lion King remakes) but it is happening to many companies and universities where they use our own greed against us. I hope America will wake up and realize we have fighting a hidden war, but we are so divided I doubt we'll notice until we've lost, if we notice at all.

On the surface, this seems like FUD or at least exaggerated. Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile. China does have a lot of corporate influence at the upper levels and corporations do pull many of the levers of government here, but on an individual level, I don't think it's that's dramatic. Although this topic has been sensationalized a lot, personally I don't t…

On an individual level, it would appear that just being from Hong Kong and not China will get you death threats.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#789

Post by seneca »

commandlinefan wrote: post #780
vmception wrote: post #190

Getting the actual opinion of anyone in China (or Hong Kong if you’re a worker and well integrated) is very difficult. There is a lot of reading between the lines necessary because of the network of reporting from other Chinese that’s worldwide. Note: those actual opinions are not necessarily “life is baaaad what a niiightmare”, they can be quite nuanced just like anywhere else. Something as simple as “I kind of like…

> Getting the actual opinion of anyone in China ... is very difficult. Is it really that different in America (or the "west" in general)? Most of us have become very guarded in what opinions we share in the past few years.

That's not a coincidence. The same tactics that lead China where it is now are being used here.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#790

Post by kmeisthax »

toss1 wrote: post #579
skeeter2020 wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it doesn't have the immediate satisifaction of a twitter pitchfork mob, I appreciate a measured approach IF there is serious (albeit slow moving) action taken. The last thing we need is an equally impactful response in the opposite direction. He's the head of the school and needs to balance a wide range of perspectives and demands. The context has been set so now I'm watching to see if the actions back it up. I…

>>The last thing we need is an equally impactful response in the opposite direction. We need a MORE impactful response form this side, but it does not have to be instant. And you are correct that it has to be carefully investigated, soundly based, and measured for maximum effect. Ultimately, if you are a "student" here and are participating in state power projection, spying, or abuse of anyone merely participating in…

China is banking on the hunch that it's impossible to rhetorically separate "China" and "Chinese", and that western powers or their citizens will fuck up and engage in hate crimes or war crimes that...

1. Unify the country around the People's Republic of China generally, and Xi Jinping specifically

2. Damage or destroy any alliances with western powers that China's neighbors might have

The absolute worst thing we can do right now is knee-jerk our way into blowback, and a lot of the reaction here seems to be that we should. In fact, I even read a report[0] stating that a lot of the recent government attempts to fish out Chinese spies have devolved into fishing expeditions against Chinese grad students in America. I'm tempted to say we're doing it wrong, but it could also be the case that we're just making the least-worst mistakes right now.

[0] which I absolutely wish I could find!

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