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Ask HN: How would a programming language look if designed by non-programmer

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101–110 of 132 posts

Re: Ask HN: How would a programming language look if designed by non-programmer

#101
I've seen lots of journal papers in my field that use labVIEW to write an application that uses a node-based model or data-flow coding, similar to how Blender handles Shader nodes.

In general, it helps students to write a quick application and focus to the important part at the cost of limiting the environment to labVIEW.

Re: Ask HN: How would a programming language look if designed by non-programmer

#103

I’ve actually posed this question to non programmers. The language they come up with usually resembles natural language English. Alternatively it looks like a box/line drawing. It almost never looks like programming as we conceive it.

It's also not a general-purpose language in many cases. To the extent that I have made languages (mostly re-implementations or extensions) that were meant to be used by others (usually engineers doing analysis, or operators of a complex system), they had developed a bespoke DSL that represented their problem domain. They tended to fall into two modes: command oriented with mutation, declarative query languages. The d…

> The declarative query languages were often the most consistent and uniform throughout.

Declarative query languages are where it's at for non programmers IMO. SQL + Excel + Matlab is the sweet spot IMO. Why? Because non-programmers have the most success with these languages! No need to explain Excel. SQL is known by all kids of non-programmers. For example, my father in law sells directory ads. He is one of the least knowledgeable people about computers, and even he knows SQL. Matlab and other array languages also have quick uptake by non-programmers in my experience.

Re: Ask HN: How would a programming language look if designed by non-programmer

#105
post #42
post #5

50 years ago, these people were quite common. There were only mathematicians and engineers, but programmers didn't exist yet. The good: Excel, Dataflow Diagrams (commonly found in game, music and arts), SQL, Declarative Dataflow Paradigms in general. Mutablity is counterintuitively counterintuitive if you don't have a model of the underlying execution system. The weird: Prolog, APL, languages done by mathematicians a…

I'm of the age that I also consider 50 years ago to be the dawn of computing. Turns out it's closer to 75. :-) It has been said that non-programmers used to catch on to APL quite quickly back in the day. Faster than regular programming languages in fact. The designers, Ken Iverson, didn't even design the language to be run on computers but rather as a mathematical notation. Someone else mentioned Excel, and that is a…

I’m mid 30s and still think 50 years ago is 1950 …

Re: Ask HN: How would a programming language look if designed by non-programmer

#108
One thing I've noticed always seems to amaze non-programmers as they're taking their first foray into using computers in more advanced ways (programming, scripting, even just using a command-line) is how little room there is for typos. I've frequently heard things like, "if you forget a single semicolon the whole thing doesn't work!" To me, it just seems obvious that if you make a mistake, the computer won't know what to do with your code. But maybe it doesn't really have to be that way.

So my guess is that a programming language created by a non-programmer would be extremely tolerant to typos. References to non-existent variables and functions would resolve to the nearest existing options. Semicolons, commas, parentheses and brackets would be strictly optional. This seems to be closer to the way people naturally use language.

Re: Ask HN: How would a programming language look if designed by non-programmer

#109

A programming language for "normal" people would not start counting at 0. For starters.

Ah, if we just have started to count years from 0 and not one - so many issues cross have been avoided (centuries, year 2000, or was it 1999, or 2001?)
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