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Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

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Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#1

Post by hfthrowaway »

I'm a self-taught programmer w/ 0-1 year of professional experience. My current income is pretty dismal, and the recruiter (third-party) forced me to disclose it. Now I'm worried if that might drag down the offer. I can't accurately assess my value, as I don't have something concrete like a CS degree to base it on. I'm also afraid I'll be meek about negotiation, if I'm asking for something thats way off their range.

It's a multi-billion dollar hedge fund in NYC w/ very low headcount. I'd say the project workload is higher than average because of a small dev team, and its a fair balance of front/middle/back office work. Its a discretionary (non-quant) fund.

1) What range should I expect to be fair? (salary + bonus)

2) Is it unethical to negotiate directly with the employer (go around the recruiter)? I imagine the recruiter just wants to close a deal, and not really fight for the best offer.

3) If I shoot too high, can the offer get pulled before I'm told its out of their range? If I say "I'm expecting X" can they say "We're sorry, that's too much, we decided to go with applicant B" ?

4) I'm reading about negotiation (especially here on HN). Everything from "don't say the first number" to "say the first number (price anchoring)". I actually have a figure in my mind that I believe I'd be happy with. Its slightly higher than the top of the range I was quoted by the recruiter. Would it be better to just say "I expect X for this position" and be hardnose about it, or to say "I was expecting something between X and X+20%" and negotiate?

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#2

Post by chops »

From what I understand about the hedge fund market (a friend of mine is the CTO of a hedge fund who worked his way up as a programmer), especially for NYC, is to expect a low salary, and make it up with the end of year bonus.

No idea how much things have changed since he told me this (a couple years ago), but that's what I got.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#3

Post by hueniverse »

Salary for a junior developer can be anywhere between $80K-120K with a bonus range of 10%-50%. This is based on nothing but 1-2 years of experience and a CS degree. Most companies will not deal directly with you if you came with a recruiter. The recruiter makes about 20-30% commission on your BASE salary so they are motivated to get you the most money and close the deal (which means you need to accept it).

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#4

Post by hfthrowaway »

chops wrote: post #2

From what I understand about the hedge fund market (a friend of mine is the CTO of a hedge fund who worked his way up as a programmer), especially for NYC, is to expect a low salary, and make it up with the end of year bonus. No idea how much things have changed since he told me this (a couple years ago), but that's what I got.

Thanks for the feedback. I won't be involved in the investment decisions, but will be developing tools for the traders. There is a bonus, but I'm not sure what the typical size is for the developers. I'm wondering if the bonus is on par with what developers at Google/Facebook, etc take home.

But you're right, it is something I will consider when evaluating the package.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#5

Post by pagekalisedown »

(3) is only going to happen if you insist. People generally make offers serially, from the candidate they're most interested in, to the one they're least interested in (but still interested in hiring obviously). If you ask for too much, they'll let you know.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#6

Post by colinsidoti »

Sounds like you have a bad recruiter. (2) is a situation that should never happen, as they get paid by a percentage of your base salary.

That said, it also sounds like you're in a situation where it's incredibly difficult to negotiate. I'd say take whatever they give you and kick ass at your job. You'll build up your resume, and in a few months if you believe your underpaid, you'll have something to negotiate with. Moreover, with something substantial on your resume you won't have any trouble moving elsewhere.

If you're worried about your recruiter, I'd recommend calling TTS Staffing and asking for Morgan, he's the best that I've dealt with in New York.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#7

Post by earle »

You have basically no practical experience, and you're worried about getting "fair compensation" for this job? You should be taking this job to absorb as much practical experience and knowledge you can get -- thats the opportunity for you; not some mediocre paycheck.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#8

Post by kelleyk »

I spent about a year working at a non-quant hedge fund out of NYC, and I saw people in similar-sounding situations making $100-125k base, plus another 20-50% in year-end comp ("bonuses"). Recruitment bonuses (or "relocation incentives," what have you) vary widely, too, but seemed to be usually in the lowish-five-figures range.

Of course, I don't know anything about your particular situation; maybe the firm you're talking to has specific interest in you that will take them higher!

Also, like some others have mentioned, your year-end compensation ("bonus") is a big chunk of your take-home---but hard to anticipate ahead of time. Even within a team there can be huge variance (depending on your individual awesome) so the "mean" or whatever figure they're willing to give you doesn't really help.

Re: Ask HN: junior hedge fund programmer - what is fair compensation?

#10

Post by wpietri »

colinsidoti wrote: post #6

Sounds like you have a bad recruiter. (2) is a situation that should never happen, as they get paid by a percentage of your base salary. That said, it also sounds like you're in a situation where it's incredibly difficult to negotiate. I'd say take whatever they give you and kick ass at your job. You'll build up your resume, and in a few months if you believe your underpaid, you'll have something to negotiate with. M…

> Sounds like you have a bad recruiter. (2) is a situation that should never happen, as they get paid by a percentage of your base salary.

You sure? Situations like that are ripe for recruiters lowballing the hires. Why? Because the recruiter can get many commissions from a steady client, but only gets one commission from the employee. As long as they can make it up on volume, there's a real incentive to be a slack negotiator.

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