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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#621

Post by pydry »

ericmay wrote: post #576
pydry wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because both parties are owned by oligarchs who would lose money if that happened. Minimum wage hikes chew through profits and profits are pretty much the #1 legislative priority because that's the primary concern of those doing the campaign financing. Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. American politics is the art of t…

> Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. Depends on what you mean by gun control though. Many (myself included) are pro 2nd Amendment so it's not just the gun lobby/NRA who oppose some (not all) regulation. I guess my point is that gun control (whatever that means) won't happen not only because of gun lobbyists but because…

It's not the tail wagging the dog, though. The large contingent of Americans who throw their political weight in an organized way behind gun ownership as a point of principle were rallied by the gun manufacturing industry. It wasn't organic.

It didn't happen in Australia or New Zealand or the UK even though gun enthusiasts exist in all of those countries.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#622

Post by evergrande »

temp8964 wrote: post #516
Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

I think the most recent experience on inflation is very clear on this. The government reported number is 6%. But for people who spend most of their money on daily items, like rent and grocery, 6% is like lying to my face telling me red is blue.

The number is way low. Housing/rental costs are the largest expense and that's up 20% in many places. Used cars are up 40%.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#623

Post by micromacrofoot »

sokoloff wrote: post #401
hvidgaard wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What good is new tech if you cannot afford to buy a house or a new'ish car for the minimum wage, even if you live frugal and save?

Is it reasonable to expect that a minimum wage earner should be able to afford to buy a house and a newish car? Were minimum wage earners doing that in 1970?

My grandparents had my mom at 17 in 1965, were disowned by their parents, and bought a house at 19 on a single carpenter's apprentice salary. They bought a new car a couple years later.

My grandmother only started working part-time ~1980 as things started getting harder to afford on a single salary.

I think about this a lot because even with two people working full time we couldn't afford a house (in the same city) until we were in our late 20s, without a child. Still have never owned a new car.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#624

Post by notreallyserio »

mellavora wrote: post #255
silisili wrote: post #58

As someone who does OK, but lives in reality (not the bay area), I feel a revolution coming. I hope it's not a violent one, but who knows at this point. Hopefully it's just a politician with big policy changes. People feel completely disenfranchised. You keep hanging housing over their head but just out of reach like some baby toy, then inflation spikes everything else. What's the point of working even? I don't know…

Yeah, on that violent revolution thing. I've been thinking about it alot for the last few years, and then it dawned on me. 6 Jan 2021. The violent revolution will always need a leader. In a democracy, that leader will establish some level of political success. These statements derive directly from the definitions. So what we need to be on the lookout for is a political leader who normalizes mobs and violence, and qua…

Jan 6th could have been so much worse if the President had merely asked, that's how close we got. The pieces were in place and one word, perhaps "go" or "now", would have been enough to cause substantially more injuries and deaths.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#625

Post by klyrs »

rspeele wrote: post #620
pydry wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because both parties are owned by oligarchs who would lose money if that happened. Minimum wage hikes chew through profits and profits are pretty much the #1 legislative priority because that's the primary concern of those doing the campaign financing. Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. American politics is the art of t…

The biggest gun manufacturer you can buy stock in is Ruger (RGR) with a market cap of 1.17B. Add Smith & Wesson and you're at 2B. Throw in Vista Outdoors which owns many of the top US ammo brands (plus some minor firearm and accessory brands) and you can get the total up to 4.3B. I'll multiply that by 10 to guesstimate privately held companies, local gun stores, and the rest of the long tail. So let's say we're at $4…

Yeah, that's weird in perspective. Snapchat's valuation doesn't give them buying power, but Apple has nearly 200B cash on hand -- they could theoretically buy and close down all of these manufacturers and test the hypothesis that Big Gun is causing all the shootings.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#626

Post by handrous »

dan-robertson wrote: post #337
efaref wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet connections cost poor people nothing in 1970 because they weren't necessary and could happily live their lives without one. The real item we're looking at here is *communication*, which was cheap: the stamp you needed to send in the form for your taxes cost a few cents. You could get away with using payphones for the few phone calls you absolutely needed to make. In 2021, internet connections and cellphones…

An internet connected smartphone is not equivalent to the postal service (plus a pay phone or landline I guess). It may be that you use a computer or something else for the things that most people use smartphones for, wand so don’t realise how much they cover. You also didn’t mention having to go to the library (distance + fuel/car/travel costs + more time) for information, finding jobs from newspaper advertisements…

Affording Internet access and a cell phone is no problem for me, but the only reason I have either is because they're de facto required for my work, for my spouse's work, and for our kids' school. I do use it for other stuff since I have it anyway, but I absolutely see it as a ~$140/mo tax on participating in the economy. Stuff like streaming services only makes sense because I already have to pay that "tax"—it'd be way cheaper to just buy all the media I want otherwise. $140/mo + (cost of streaming services) buys a lot of movies, books, TV shows, and music.

Overall, I think having the Internet makes my life significantly worse except for how it makes it possible for my family to participate in the modern education and the modern job market. It's a benefit mainly because you're shut out from things that previously did not require it if you don't have it.

[EDIT] ~$140/mo is my home Internet service and roughly what it costs for Internet service on two cell phone lines. I'd probably keep phone + SMS service even without the societal requirement to have Internet service.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#627

Post by temp8964 »

evergrande wrote: post #622
temp8964 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the most recent experience on inflation is very clear on this. The government reported number is 6%. But for people who spend most of their money on daily items, like rent and grocery, 6% is like lying to my face telling me red is blue.

The number is way low. Housing/rental costs are the largest expense and that's up 20% in many places. Used cars are up 40%.

Many food items like milk, eggs, meat are almost 50%~100% more expensive.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#628

Post by ghaff »

anotherman554 wrote: post #587
prepend wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you traveled using maps and GPS? They are very different, and not even comparable. It seems to me like comparing a shovel to a ditch digging machine. It is possible to navigate using maps. But not practical for the mass audience of GPS who can’t use maps. And impossible for the industries that require GPS (uber types). Technology is a multiplier that increases the returns on things my removing labor and letting…

You believe it's not practical to navigate without a GPS? Watch an old movie-- like the Graduate, or the funny comedy it's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad world, people had maps and asked for directions at gas stations.

There used to be a whole trope of men (especially) not wanting to stop and ask for directions. I'm sure there are younger people who would watch a movie or a TV show where this happens and go "Huh????"

There are also any number of plot points that revolve around not being able to reach someone that also wouldn't make a lot of sense in general today.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#629

Post by bumby »

pydry wrote: post #621
ericmay wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. Depends on what you mean by gun control though. Many (myself included) are pro 2nd Amendment so it's not just the gun lobby/NRA who oppose some (not all) regulation. I guess my point is that gun control (whatever that means) won't happen not only because of gun lobbyists but because…

It's not the tail wagging the dog, though. The large contingent of Americans who throw their political weight in an organized way behind gun ownership as a point of principle were rallied by the gun manufacturing industry. It wasn't organic. It didn't happen in Australia or New Zealand or the UK even though gun enthusiasts exist in all of those countries.

But that ability to organize is also protected by the US Constitution. You may consider it unethical, but it’s not illegal.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#630

Post by fathereatsass »

pydry wrote: post #621
ericmay wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. Depends on what you mean by gun control though. Many (myself included) are pro 2nd Amendment so it's not just the gun lobby/NRA who oppose some (not all) regulation. I guess my point is that gun control (whatever that means) won't happen not only because of gun lobbyists but because…

It's not the tail wagging the dog, though. The large contingent of Americans who throw their political weight in an organized way behind gun ownership as a point of principle were rallied by the gun manufacturing industry. It wasn't organic. It didn't happen in Australia or New Zealand or the UK even though gun enthusiasts exist in all of those countries.

I don't think that's a claim you can just throw out there. The gun industry is tiny and barely has any money compared to big tech, not to mention the insane ability big tech has to manufacture consent. Gun companies are successful because people support them, not the other way around.
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