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TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

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Re: TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

#71

Post by adventured »

c0balt wrote: post #15
pshushereba wrote: post #11

China stealing intellectual property? If only we could have seen this coming!

Not like US companies would be any better. They usually just take more care of hiding it, cause you know, cause you know lawsuits.

US (and European) companies are typically a lot better about it, precisely because they fear lawsuits, they fear the consequences.

China and its large companies don't fear lawsuits the way US corporations do. That's how Jack Ma was able to steal Alipay from Yahoo shareholders and laugh all the way to the bank, there were no consequences to worry about. It's why Yahoo capitulated in dealing with Alibaba as a major shareholder, they knew the end result would have been their ownership stake could just be zero'd out at any time. That's why China can arbitrarily point at Didi and tell them to delist, regardless of what it does to foreign shareholders - there's nothing to worry about, there will be no meaningful consequences.

You can't get at them domestically if they don't want you to, because they're a nation that operates by the shielded, arbitrary dictate of the CCP rather than laws, and nearly everyone is afraid of their retaliation (including the richest corporations in the world like Apple).

Nobody much fears the US will retaliate the way China does. That's why the EU has been pounding US tech companies with mega fines, and wouldn't dare behave that way toward China. It's why the green virtue signalers are so very scared to publicly lambast China, and they'll harangue the US and EU all day. It's why the NBA will intentionally ignore any and all atrocities of China (they're intensely terrified to utter even the slightest of negative words toward China), yet they have almost zero fear of jabbing the US 24/7 - it's because for the most part nobody is afraid of the US.

Re: TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

#72

Post by dodgepong »

jaywalk wrote: post #54
sergiotapia wrote: post #49

Hope there is a multi-million dollar pay-off for OBS.

OBS is willing to work with TikTok to get them into compliance. That would either mean open-sourcing the software or paying for a license.

Paying for a license would be nearly impossible, as the OBS team would need every contributor to sign a CLA to give the OBS team the rights to relicense/dual-license the OBS code base.

Re: TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

#73

Post by r1ch »

mrweasel wrote: post #58

Are they technically obligated to provide the source code online, or could they just say: "Well it's available on request, and no one has done so"? The just mail out a USB stick or DVD to anyone who asks? I believe that's with in the limits of the GPLv2.

The binaries must be accompanied with an offer of the source code. There is no mention of source code anywhere during the download, install or execution of TikTok Studio, nor any offer inside the application folder or similar.

Re: TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

#74

Post by jrm4 »

Yup. The best thing we can all do is shine a light on it. I'm a lawyer and one thing that's important to remember in all of this is the interconnectedness of things, and being strategic about how to proceed is important. Shine the light everywhere.

As in, one thing to consider is that some proponents of Free Software do not actually want certain types of high-profile public cases on the GPL even when they law appears to be very much on their side, mostly because it could be really bad if a judge gets it wrong and sets something stupid as precedent.

Re: TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

#75

Post by ghusbands »

bilbo0s wrote: post #60
jaywalk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OBS is willing to work with TikTok to get them into compliance. That would either mean open-sourcing the software or paying for a license.

At this point, it's not even clear to me that paying would rectify the legal issue with respect to the GPL. It's an amalgamation of source contributions over time. Any one contributor could, in theory, refuse any consideration other than an open sourcing of the software. Of course, now I think about it, that could be an easy problem to fix. They say every man has a number.

Almost all relicensing efforts are actually most hindered by not being able to contact people. If you can't contact someone who holds the copyright to something, you can't change the licensing rights over it.

A lot of projects have copyright assignment, to allow for relicensing. They typically ask for you to assign copyright to them or to a company they control, so that they can still relicense as they see fit, in future.

Re: TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

#76

Post by r_hoods_ghost »

lucasyvas wrote: post #40
phkahler wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of the GPLv3 limiting the available response to copyright violations. Time limits in particular. It's one of the less clear parts of the license IMHO, and it affects the primary means of enforcement. Fortunately a lot of GPLv3 code is actually 3+ so maybe if a version 4 ever comes along this nonsensical restriction on enforcement will be more limited. I do understand the reasons around accidental misuse…

I'm not personally a fan of protecting against accidental misuse. No other law offers significant leniency for ignorance that I am aware of.

This is a common misconception. I don't know about US law but in English law (including contract law) there is a well defined distinction between "wilful" and "non-wilful" misconduct that rests upon whether a violation is intentional. Definitionally violating a contract or clause that you are ignorant of cannot be intentional. I know in the US the same concept of wilfulness is used in the context of tax law at the very least.

tldr; in law ignorance is a defence, or at least a mitigating circumstance.

Re: TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

#77

Post by mrweasel »

r1ch wrote: post #73
mrweasel wrote: post #58

Are they technically obligated to provide the source code online, or could they just say: "Well it's available on request, and no one has done so"? The just mail out a USB stick or DVD to anyone who asks? I believe that's with in the limits of the GPLv2.

The binaries must be accompanied with an offer of the source code. There is no mention of source code anywhere during the download, install or execution of TikTok Studio, nor any offer inside the application folder or similar.

That makes sense, they need to let people know how to obtain the source code.

Re: TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

#78

Post by addingnumbers »

ghusbands wrote: post #9

People are misunderstanding this and claiming it's not problematic. Ben Torrell (an OBS developer) notes later in the thread that there is indeed GPL code compiled into TikTok's executables; since source is not available and they have not got another license, it is unlicensed and hence illegal.

People are misunderstanding this and claiming it's not problematic because the tweet in the HN link is idiocy.

They show one URL in one installer script with an obsproject.com domain and conclude, from the presence of that URL alone, that the entire project is a whole cloth copy of OBS.

That URL is nothing but a 302 redirect to the directx runtime at https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Download/confirmation.aspx?i...

The linked tweet tells us nothing except that TikTok is essentially using obsproject.com's web server as a URL shortener.

Re: TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

#79

Post by daptaq »

throwaway934876 wrote: post #69
SergeAx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a way to buy oneself out of GPL license? I beleive there's not.

The authors can re-license right, even for one (paying) customer? They could also pay for the promise not to sue? IANAL.

I remember reading that it should be able for users to sue instead of the author, if they cannot ccess the source of GPL'ed software.

Re: TikTok streaming software is an illegal fork of OBS

#80

Post by KoftaBob »

0xdeadb00f wrote: post #16
pshushereba wrote: post #11

China stealing intellectual property? If only we could have seen this coming!

I don't think this is unique to China lol. Organisations around the globe steal IP all the time.

It's not unique to China, but it's particularly prolific in China. One of the major reasons for the US tariffs against China was pressure for them to actually respect IP.
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