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Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

reuters.com

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Re: Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

#41
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen little evidence that having previously had COVID gives you sterilizing immunity. Some evidence it gives you better immunity than the vaccine but now more evidence coming out that points to the vaccine being better.

Here are 100+ studies to that effect, https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-n...

I'm not sure what I'm looking at.

> Such would be evidence of immunity that is equal to that of vaccination and the immunity should be provided the same societal status as any vaccine-induced immunity.

They advocate for infection having the same status as vaccination, which is reasonable, and the policies, at least in the west and in the countries I'm familiar with, they take previous infection into account.

> Again, the Marek’s disease in chickens and the vaccination situation explains what we are potentially facing with these leaky vaccines

Then they mention Marek's disease in a gross (yet common) misunderstanding of the causes of such scenario. Luckily, humans aren't stacked up onto each other in direct contact 24/7.

> This follow-up chart is the most updated and comprehensive library list of 139 of the highest-quality, complete, most robust scientific studies and evidence reports/position statements on natural immunity as compared to the COVID-19 vaccine-induced immunity and allow you to draw your own conclusion.

OK, let's go through a few:

1. Results are unbelievable (0 reinfections among +1000 people who expose themselves daily) but the methodology seems solid otherwise. No complaints.

2. In vitro, small sample.

3. Conveniently skips "When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated,"

4. Doesn't even talk about COVID-19 vaccine-induced immunity.

5. Shows that vaccine antibody titers wane faster than natural immunity. Interesting given that previous studies from the list focus on how T/B-cell response is much better measure than antibody levels. Kinda moving goalposts, but OK.

6. Shows 1/10 reinfection rate among infected vs infection rate among general population (since the study is from February 2021, I'd say that's roughly 90% unvaccinated). Doesn't compare against vaccines, which was the original point of the list? Funnily it directly disproves the unbelievable numbers of study 1, and this looks equally solid.

7. Says previously infected may not need a second dose (conveniently skips that they may need one).

8. Doesn't compare with anything.

9. Titers at 5 months after infection, hardly interesting.

10. Immunoglobulin levels, 2020, hardly interesting, doesn't compare with anything..

From this point the list seems to decrease in relevance to the point, just showing that infection gives some immunity, which is hardly what anyone is arguing. Some just talk about measles (55), others about possible cross immunity (85, 109), but overall it feels more like a vague Google search than a curated list of anything.

Re: Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

#42
post #10

Governments are also indemnifying the people who do not want to get the vaccines and are spreading covid through their behavior (no masks, not distancing, no isolating). It would be interesting to see what would happen if families of people that die from covid-19 in coming months/years bring a negligent homicide lawsuits against some of the prominent advocates of the above mentioned behavior.

Given that vaccines don't affect transmission at all, but do suppress symptoms, any such lawsuits would run in the other direction - people who can't take the vaccines due to allergies etc suing people who did, on the grounds that they knew or should have known that they'd become invisible spreaders and dangerous to those who couldn't take vaccines.

But in reality no sensible court would allow such arguments in either direction. Trying to assign moral culpability to an invisible body state you can't sense is idiotic and dystopian.

Re: Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

#43

> Many COVID-19 vaccine manufacturers have required that countries indemnify them for any adverse events suffered by individuals as a result of the vaccines, the United Nations says. Where governments are not in control, that is not possible. The concerns affect people, such as those displaced by the Myanmar, Afghanistan and Ethiopian crises, who are beyond the reach of national governments' vaccination schemes. Stat…

That's a good question with a lot of observations that could be made... I'd say that out of concern for the (economic) consequences of harmful side effects, the choice not to get the jab is de-facto forcefully made for the stateless by the manufacturers + state. I wouldn't call this protection. As a stateless, your legal freedom (which I think ought to be inalienable) to get a particular medical product you might wan…

But think about how we got here.

In US you can get 100 mil in liability damages per injured person in lawsuits, which doesn't make any sense when you consider that with that sum you could save thousands of lives (poor people, ...)

So you could easily be made to pay 10 bil for causing vaccine damage to a 1000 people, while disregarding the hundred of millions the vaccine saved.

Do you think that would be fair?

Re: Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

#44

> Many COVID-19 vaccine manufacturers have required that countries indemnify them for any adverse events suffered by individuals as a result of the vaccines, the United Nations says. Where governments are not in control, that is not possible. The concerns affect people, such as those displaced by the Myanmar, Afghanistan and Ethiopian crises, who are beyond the reach of national governments' vaccination schemes. Stat…

>Stateless humans have more legal protection than stateful humans?

"If there is hope, it may lie with the proles..."

Re: Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

#45
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I had it and have Dr. letter that says so. I now have sterilizing immunity. No, you don't, nobody has, 'sterilizing immunity' doesn't exist as you seem to think it does [0]. I seriously doubt a doctor would write 'sterilizing immunity' in such a letter, so I assume that's your reasoning. > so it is not better for me nor my family. It actually is [1]. Even if you had it, you're still better off having the jab. > I a…

I have talked to my Dr. 'you're still better off having the jab.' You are not my Dr. Supposedly vaccine reporting of harm is about 1%, though it would seem to be difficult to verify if it is 1% or 3%. 52 dead infants have been reported. https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/baby-of-fully-vaccinated-m... It is not better, and not for 'all'.

> vaccine reporting of harm is about 1%

What on earth is that piece of random rumourmongering based on?

I felt horrible for ~24 hours after my second Pfizer shot. If that counts as hard then sure, 1% is believable. If it is actually harmful side effects than that is total nonsense. 1% is a huge, huge number of people.

Re: Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

#46

I see a lot of complaints of people about the fact that Pfizer required legal immunity against side effects. This is a must for any vaccine manufacturer, otherwise the vaccine is just not commercially feasible. That's what killed Lymerix, and why we don't have Lyme disease vaccine anymore. If the government does not back it up, the manufacturer won't stand a chance. Even if the vaccine has a good safety profile, a 0.…

The question is which country must back this up? US? Germany? All countries in the World?

To some context: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/sep/10/p...

Re: Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

#47
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not possible to sue vaccine manufacturers if you are injured/killed. You (or your family if you are killed) have to go to a special court and very likely lose your case. In the unlikely event you win, the government pays you, not the manufacturers.

How do I get the same thing going for my software? That is, to get it mandated or legislated that people have to buy it (preferably multiple times: subscription). And no matter what happens, I can't be held liable or pay damages. Sounds like a very solid business model.

Is your software potentially saving lives but also have the risk of potentially damaging some people?

If so, you probably could get the government to cover you.

Re: Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

#48
post #8

> Johnson & Johnson (JNJ.N) of the United States confirmed it would waive a requirement for indemnity for deliveries from the buffer: "We are proud to be part of this effort to protect the world's most vulnerable people," said Paul Stoffels, Vice Chairman of the Executive Committee and Chief Scientific Officer. He did not elaborate. The maker of the most dangerous-side-effect-laden vaccine available being willing to…

It's because the side effects are known, and the patient is warned about them - so they can't sue for that.

This is not true. Side effects are not binary (you get them of you don’t).

A manufacturer could say “you run the risk of temporary paralysis of no longer than 1 year” (based on observations to date), then patient has paralysis lasting 2 years so they sue because “manufacturer understated risk and severity of paralysis”.

Re: Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

#49
post #25
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're exempt because it's an emergency and all evidence points at the treatment being better than the disease I know you don't write the law, so these questions are more in the vein of statements with questionmarks: * Why only consider evidence of cost vs. benefit in an emergency? * Why are vaccines suddenly safe in an emergency and not at other times? This pandemic proved that we can produce a "safe and effectiv…

Consider that part of the expedition comes from “skipping the line”. Only 1 thing can skip the line at a time. If everything skips the line then nothing changes.

What line? Can the regulators not consider two drugs in parallel? They should consider hiring a 2nd clerk to stamp the paperwork.

Drug & vaccine testing should be highly parallelisable.

Re: Refugees lack Covid shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits, documents show

#50

I see a lot of complaints of people about the fact that Pfizer required legal immunity against side effects. This is a must for any vaccine manufacturer, otherwise the vaccine is just not commercially feasible. That's what killed Lymerix, and why we don't have Lyme disease vaccine anymore. If the government does not back it up, the manufacturer won't stand a chance. Even if the vaccine has a good safety profile, a 0.…

The question is which country must back this up? US? Germany? All countries in the World? To some context: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/sep/10/p...

Each contract has it's own terms, one of the cause for delays within the EU was due to some of those legal terms. USA and UK waved a lot of responsibilities.

If it's shared liability, for example, in the EU it would be both EU and Pfizer that would back this up.

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