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The Web3 Fraud

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Re: The Web3 Fraud

#181

Post by dehrmann »

v64 wrote: post #21
endisneigh wrote: post #5

I don’t understand what problem web3 can solve that a trusted entity cannot. And let’s keep in mind your reply to this comment will be using a trusted entity. In fact in the history of the internet I cannot find a single example of any technology working better in a decentralized fashion compared to centralized for the end user

> In fact in the history of the internet I cannot find a single example of any technology working better in a decentralized fashion compared to centralized for the end user For many use cases, BitTorrent is a superior file distribution mechanism compared to centralized alternatives.

It's not. CDNs have proven better for use cases that aren't piracy.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#182

Post by riffic »

serverholic wrote: post #30

This has got to be trolling. Almost every point is nonsense or at best uninformed vitriol. I literally don't know where to start with a comment so I'll just make a series of points related to claims in the article. Nobody has ever claimed that you can run normal computer programs on the Ethereum blockchain. It isn't meant to run fucking Doom. Smart-contracts are more like financial protocols. Blockchains are a form o…

> This has got to be trolling.

Considering the source, I don't find this likely:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/;login:

(the colon needs to be the last character in the URL above, which this site's markdown parser truncates)

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#183

Post by _1tan »

paxys wrote: post #165
selestify wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're pretty off, yes. Censorship-resistance is one of the core selling points of Ethereum. :) > but will make it so the address the item is stored at returns nothing There's no way for the blockchain to do that. The only way this is possible on ethereum is if the smart contract includes a self-destruct function, and the owner of the smart contract decides to call it (either because their private keys were c…

It's not always about censorship resistance. What if someone uploads child pornography on IPFS? Do we all just go "ah well, it's immutable" and live with it?

IPFS has ways of dealing with that. E.g. your node can backlist hashes.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#184

Post by withinboredom »

miracle2k wrote: post #147
jjnoakes wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that true though? If two people run self hosted apps that can communicate, all you have to verify is the data passing between. What assurances are you missing?

They can communicate, but if they want to agree on shared state between them, they have to solve the same problem that blockchains seek to solve, and the options available to you there are essentially on a spectrum of how many people are going to participate and to what extend you can vet them.

I don’t think multiplayer games are running a blockchain and they agree on shared state. Humans being humans tend to reject cheaters who manipulate the state in their favor. But you don’t need a blockchain for any of this, and in fact, it’s too slow to have shared state /in real time/.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#185

Post by crucialfelix »

v64 wrote: post #13

Many criticisms of blockchain apps, comparing their use cases to conventional technologies (databases, conventional separation of services such as that described in the article, etc) all seem to miss a major point: Dapps running on the blockchain are immutable and highly resistant to being shutdown. Immutability is important because it's guaranteed that no matter how many times you interact with a contract address, y…

When I die, will my Dapps still run forever as long as people access them? User pays?

This is the only great use case I can think of.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#186

Post by selestify »

smoldesu wrote: post #177
selestify wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Uniswap and Sushiswap allows you to trade different cryptos for one another. If you want to trade gold for some reason in a decentralized manner, you could do that by making trades between gold-pegged crypto and stablecoins - Aave allows you to lend and borrow different crypto assets. If you wish to short a crypto, or if you wish to borrow against your portfolio so that you're spending fiat rather than your portfol…

Where's your "Google"? Where's your "YouTube"? Where's your killer app? Everything you've listed is just different ways to throw away cryptocurrency. The average Joe is going to look at that list, chuckle, and go back to browsing Twitter on their iPhone. There's no main attraction here.

> Where's your "YouTube"? Where's your killer app?

Where's the "Youtube" of the dark web? The famed red rooms don't even exist.

What's the "killer app" of the dark web? Doesn't even exist, unless maybe you count the drug markets. I'd hazard a guess that they're by far the most popular.

> Everything you've listed is just different ways to throw away cryptocurrency.

I literally gave as an example how you could use fiat-backed crypto to buy gold-backed crypto. These assets literally track their real-world equivalents. Or do you have an issue with modern banking and the stock market too, because it's "just different ways to throw away" fake fiat money?

> The average Joe is going to look at that list, chuckle, and go back to browsing Twitter on their iPhone.

Good. The average Joe has no business using Tor. Hell, the average Joe doesn't even care enough about privacy to stop using Facebook. The average Joe doesn't need a lot of things. Who cares what the average Joe wants or doesn't want, unless you're trying specifically to market a product to the average Joe?

Crypto exists for those who actually find a use for it. You seem either unable or unwilling to acknowledge this fact. Which is it?

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#187

Post by riffic »

3np wrote: post #161
riffic wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

none of these will be resolvable hostnames in an unmodified desktop operating system or networking device with default configuration

The same argument could have been made against TLSv1.3, IPv6 or HTTP 2/3. See how much of the web you can access on an old IE6 installation. I don’t think anything behind a LetsEncrypt certificate will, for example.

Companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google, et al, are absolutely never going to put this sort of hopeware alternative root into their operating systems.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#188

Post by spijdar »

withinboredom wrote: post #184
miracle2k wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can communicate, but if they want to agree on shared state between them, they have to solve the same problem that blockchains seek to solve, and the options available to you there are essentially on a spectrum of how many people are going to participate and to what extend you can vet them.

I don’t think multiplayer games are running a blockchain and they agree on shared state. Humans being humans tend to reject cheaters who manipulate the state in their favor. But you don’t need a blockchain for any of this, and in fact, it’s too slow to have shared state /in real time/.

While I'm not really big on "Blockchain all the things!" this might be a poor analogy, considering just how many big multiplayer games use very intrusive, almost rootkit level anticheat software to, effectively, try and force all clients to behave and share state fairly...

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#189

Post by withinboredom »

selestify wrote: post #112
jjnoakes wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are easy mitigations for those things though. My self hosted apps run on immutable infrastructure and are replicated and load balanced. Still stupid cheap and easy.

> My self hosted apps run on immutable infrastructure and are replicated and load balanced What? Assuming you live in the US, the government can swoop in at any time (provided they have a legal reason to do so) and demand that AWS or whoever's hosting your servers shuts them down. If you're hosting them yourself, they can raid the physical locations where you host them. If you're not in the US, I'm sure your country…

> Good luck raiding every single Ethereum node

I’m just waiting for the day when governments decide that all this crypto is hurting the environment more than necessary for no real gain and forces ISPs to block this traffic. Similar to how many ISPs block serving DNS or SMTP from residential IPs.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#190

Post by selestify »

paxys wrote: post #179
selestify wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, you either play whack-a-mole with every single IPFS server, or you live with it, because you have no choice. Like I've said elsewhere, this is "for better or for worse," depending on your political sensibilities. Again, I think Tor is a good example here. Lots of CP on Tor, or so I hear. But also persecuted journalists and whistleblowers, and safer drugs than you'd find on the streets. You can't realistical…

So then the ceiling of adoption for this entire ecosystem is Tor or BitTorrent at best. Far cry from the "next internet" it is being touted as.

That's a strong claim. Depends a lot on what the regulatory landscape is going to look like in the future. I'm guessing you're no more a Congress insider than I am.

Having used both defi and traditional financial infrastructure, defi definitely feels a lot, lot more frictionless to me, at least while acting within the Ethereum ecosystem. Time will tell, but I find it hard to believe such frictionlessness won't eventually force its way into the world.

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