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The Web3 Fraud

usenix.org

71–80 of 377 posts

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#71
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"mostly" being the key word :) If you're self-hosting, then your server is a weak point. It goes down, your app goes down. The additional cost and risk that comes with using blockchains provides a platform for your app to run on that you don't have to manage and is highly resistant to being shut down. Likewise, there always exists the possibility that your server can be compromised and the code can be altered. The im…

There are easy mitigations for those things though. My self hosted apps run on immutable infrastructure and are replicated and load balanced. Still stupid cheap and easy.

[deleted]

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#72
post #37
post #13

Many criticisms of blockchain apps, comparing their use cases to conventional technologies (databases, conventional separation of services such as that described in the article, etc) all seem to miss a major point: Dapps running on the blockchain are immutable and highly resistant to being shutdown. Immutability is important because it's guaranteed that no matter how many times you interact with a contract address, y…

This is great, but I don't need it at 10^9 times the cost. Imagine if a single red apple costed about $100M, yet it had rather unique qualities such as indisputable, provable lack of contamination. That's the kind of cost difference we're talking about here.

Not the best example, since I’m pretty sure NASA has made similar tradeoffs.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto isn’t about technology. It’s about wealth and power (literally!) on top of a (slow) distributed database. As technologists, we ought to recognize the difference and see the forests for the trees. As a technologist, I cannot unsee the patterns nor look away. I’m sure you’d find similar musings in 2600 or Phrack decades ago.

I am not talking about Crypto (I presume you mean crypto currencies). I am talking about technologies that enable centralization vs. decentralization.

I’m am specially speaking about blockchains, cryptocurrencies, NFTs, and the like, not IPFS, DHTs, or improvements to existing internet technologies (mutable torrents, webtorrent) to support decentralized storage, discovery, or name resolution. The “web3” nomenclature throws it all together, which is annoying. DeFi =! Dweb

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#74
post #13

Many criticisms of blockchain apps, comparing their use cases to conventional technologies (databases, conventional separation of services such as that described in the article, etc) all seem to miss a major point: Dapps running on the blockchain are immutable and highly resistant to being shutdown. Immutability is important because it's guaranteed that no matter how many times you interact with a contract address, y…

> Dapps running on the blockchain are immutable and highly resistant to being shutdown. why the blockchain? There are other peer to peer tech that do not involve the blockchain, if your goal is avoiding being shutdown or censored.

Name any that execute Turing complete programs that have also shown resiliency to being taken down. Lot of darknet markets running on Tor have been shutdown over the years. Can't shut down a smart contract with no self-destruct function unless you shut down the entire Ethereum network.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#75
post #13

Many criticisms of blockchain apps, comparing their use cases to conventional technologies (databases, conventional separation of services such as that described in the article, etc) all seem to miss a major point: Dapps running on the blockchain are immutable and highly resistant to being shutdown. Immutability is important because it's guaranteed that no matter how many times you interact with a contract address, y…

> Dapps running on the blockchain are immutable and highly resistant to being shutdown.

Yeah, and that's why we have Ethereum Classic, a remnant of its own shameful history. Dapps are still man-made, so can be faulty, but Ethereum doesn't have any recovery scenario for faulty dapps other than forking out. No one can save you from your own deadly mistakes. This simply can't scale.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I did... That quoted paragraph doesn't negate my point which is that I do get the same (or very similar) assurances elsewhere, so I think the comparison is valid.

Ah my bad, I thought you were focusing on the features rather than the assurances. I'll respond to the other comment you made.

To me the two words (feature and assurance) are synonyms in this discussion. I meant both above.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#77
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get mostly the same features with self-hosted and local traditional apps for a fraction of the price and much lower general financial risk as well.

"mostly" being the key word :) If you're self-hosting, then your server is a weak point. It goes down, your app goes down. The additional cost and risk that comes with using blockchains provides a platform for your app to run on that you don't have to manage and is highly resistant to being shut down. Likewise, there always exists the possibility that your server can be compromised and the code can be altered. The im…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a dapp dependent on sufficient mining/distributed compute being in the network?. Of the network becomes small can someone attack it and change past transactions/hijack apps?

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#78
post #13

Many criticisms of blockchain apps, comparing their use cases to conventional technologies (databases, conventional separation of services such as that described in the article, etc) all seem to miss a major point: Dapps running on the blockchain are immutable and highly resistant to being shutdown. Immutability is important because it's guaranteed that no matter how many times you interact with a contract address, y…

I get mostly the same features with self-hosted and local traditional apps for a fraction of the price and much lower general financial risk as well.

But no one else can use your app with the same guarantees you give to yourself, while also being able to share state with you.

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#79
post #32

I don’t understand what problem web3 can solve that a trusted entity cannot. And let’s keep in mind your reply to this comment will be using a trusted entity. In fact in the history of the internet I cannot find a single example of any technology working better in a decentralized fashion compared to centralized for the end user

In fact in the history of the internet I cannot find a single example of any technology working better in a decentralized fashion compared to centralized for the end user Usenet.

Usenet is *semi-centralized. It's much more like a series of co-operative BBS with shared inboxes (read only, auto-expire based on storage).

Re: The Web3 Fraud

#80
post #13

Many criticisms of blockchain apps, comparing their use cases to conventional technologies (databases, conventional separation of services such as that described in the article, etc) all seem to miss a major point: Dapps running on the blockchain are immutable and highly resistant to being shutdown. Immutability is important because it's guaranteed that no matter how many times you interact with a contract address, y…

> Dapps running on the blockchain are immutable

I can think of very few systems I'd want to use where nothing can be deleted.

I don't understand why this is seemingly considered a feature for all use cases.

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