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Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

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Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#81

Post by old-gregg »

beagle3 wrote: post #34
mypov wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to add that contrary to your impression we too value privacy in USA.

Consider the massive usage of Facebook and Twitter, the lack of outrage over the warrantless wiretapping scandal (running for 10.5 years now), easily available voter records (see e.g. the backstory behind Latanya Sweeney's original identifiability study), and lack of public comments about requiring ISPs to store all session information for a long time - I would say that is strong evidence that USA as a nation does no…

Lack of outrage is the phenomena here, not the lack of respect for privacy. It's not that Americans don't value privacy, I think we do. Rather, it is the general attitude against outrage or, perhaps, against complaining, what differentiates the US from Europe.

The country doesn't have a healthcare system for citizens outside of the military, and there's no outrage. Does this mean "there is strong evidence that USA as a nation" doesn't value not dying?

"Don't seek government help, work harder, smile more and make more money" appears to be the answer/advice to those who complain/express outrage. Then you can buy yourself healthcare, privacy or anything you wish.

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#82

Post by rjd »

ristretto wrote: post #58
rickmb wrote: post #9

Facebook better wake up and realize that especially thanks to companies like them and their failure to self-regulate and respect privacy values outside the US, using Like-buttons for tracking is likely to become illegal in the EU and many other places in the next five years. Technically, one could argue that they already violate existing laws, but incidents like these will make absolutely sure that these practices wi…

TBH, i would like to see all the like/+1/tweet/digg buttons gone, they are a big privacy hazard. This functionality should be included in the browser or available from extensions.

I use a few plugins to handle this, check out:

http://www.ghostery.com/

http://open-bits.com/shellfish/

http://webgraph.com/resources/facebookblocker/

With ad block it cleans pages up like you wouldn't believe. Many sites actually become readable :O

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#83

Post by gnosis »

cletus wrote: post #35

This is a non-story for the reasons stated but a story for other reasons. It's standard that widget publishers require to use their widget "as is". That's basically what Facebook is saying. Not only do you not know what any custom modifications will necessarily do but it's a completely valid argument that you want a consistent user experience with your widget. As for user tracking, this is basically an inevitable byp…

"Most pages have a Google Analytics tracking script on them. Do you trust Google? ... Do you trust Facebook?"

I don't trust either.

I have blocked Google Analytics along with Facebook, Digg, Twitter, and a bunch of other "services".

Needless to say, I don't have an account with any of them. The "free" services they provide are of very dubious value compared to my privacy and information about my friends, interests, and online activity I'd be giving up by using them or allowing them to track me.

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#84

Post by freakwit »

rhizome wrote: post #73
orijing wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook's track record seems to be to befuddle the user and trick or opt them into sharing things wider than they understand or want. Are you saying that the product designers at Facebook want to design interfaces and settings that intentionally confuse users into laxer privacy settings? Turning this discussion into a rather presumptuous smear at Facebook in the face of many privacy failures by Google is rather ch…

Has Facebook (or Google) ever had a "privacy misstep" that was an error on the side of too-tight privacy?

Yes, but nobody knows about it.

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#85

Post by chc »

rhizome wrote: post #73
orijing wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook's track record seems to be to befuddle the user and trick or opt them into sharing things wider than they understand or want. Are you saying that the product designers at Facebook want to design interfaces and settings that intentionally confuse users into laxer privacy settings? Turning this discussion into a rather presumptuous smear at Facebook in the face of many privacy failures by Google is rather ch…

Has Facebook (or Google) ever had a "privacy misstep" that was an error on the side of too-tight privacy?

Nobody gets outraged over privacy that's too tight — they just don't use the service. You could say that Google's longstanding reluctance to embrace social was an example of too much privacy. (I don't think that was the primary motivation, but it would look the same either way.)

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#86

Post by tonfa »

beagle3 wrote: post #34
mypov wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to add that contrary to your impression we too value privacy in USA.

Consider the massive usage of Facebook and Twitter, the lack of outrage over the warrantless wiretapping scandal (running for 10.5 years now), easily available voter records (see e.g. the backstory behind Latanya Sweeney's original identifiability study), and lack of public comments about requiring ISPs to store all session information for a long time - I would say that is strong evidence that USA as a nation does no…

> lack of public comments about requiring ISPs to store all session information for a long time

Data retention is there since a long time in Europe...

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#87

Post by beagle3 »

old-gregg wrote: post #81
beagle3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the massive usage of Facebook and Twitter, the lack of outrage over the warrantless wiretapping scandal (running for 10.5 years now), easily available voter records (see e.g. the backstory behind Latanya Sweeney's original identifiability study), and lack of public comments about requiring ISPs to store all session information for a long time - I would say that is strong evidence that USA as a nation does no…

Lack of outrage is the phenomena here, not the lack of respect for privacy. It's not that Americans don't value privacy, I think we do. Rather, it is the general attitude against outrage or, perhaps, against complaining, what differentiates the US from Europe. The country doesn't have a healthcare system for citizens outside of the military, and there's no outrage. Does this mean "there is strong evidence that USA as…

I beg to differ. You may tell that to yourself and feel better (and many Americans do), but in the grand scheme of actions-speak-louder-than-words world we live in, there is no evidence for the American respect for privacy.

> Does this mean "there is strong evidence that USA as a nation" doesn't value not dying?

No, but it does mean that the country does not value a social safety net as much as it values monetary profit for the few at the top of the healthcare insurance industry.

> "Don't seek government help, work harder, smile more and make more money" appears to be the answer/advice to those who complain/express outrage. Then you can buy yourself healthcare, privacy or anything you wish.

If you believe that, you are naive. Here are some facts for you (you can google them if you want, I don't have time)

* 75% of people who file for bankruptcy because of medical expenses (and there are a lot of them) HAVE health care insurance. That doesn't happen in any country with socialized health care.

* 40M americans are on food stamps; that is, they seek and receive government help, and unlike other government perks (like extended unemployment), these will never go away because that's what is stopping blood from flowing in the streets.

* Senators and Congressmen are, on the average, millionaires (unlike military people). They can afford the healthcare they want. And they want state sponsored health care, for life (as long as they've served two terms); what's not good for the goose is apparently excellent for the gander.

* The government takes money from you -- taxes -- essentially at gun point. You might believe it is only on income, but by debasing the currency (which the Fed has been doing very diligently since 2008, and slightly less diligently since 2000, and only just diligently since 1971), they rob the value of money you already have -- and if you hold only anything like gold that retains its value -- why, that's taxed as capital gains; you can't win.

* What the government does with this money is -- among other things -- give it to their friends on Wall Street. To the tune of trillions of dollars.

You know, I remember in 2004 I was arguing with an American friend about how americans can re-elect Bush, and his reply was "we're not stupid, it's just apathy". I see this apathy as stupidity.

And you know what? It's not that it can't be changed. It's just the everyone prefers cheap iPods to actually facing things that matters. In general, that only delays the arrival of the bill - but it is coming.

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#88

Post by beagle3 »

tonfa wrote: post #86
beagle3 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the massive usage of Facebook and Twitter, the lack of outrage over the warrantless wiretapping scandal (running for 10.5 years now), easily available voter records (see e.g. the backstory behind Latanya Sweeney's original identifiability study), and lack of public comments about requiring ISPs to store all session information for a long time - I would say that is strong evidence that USA as a nation does no…

> lack of public comments about requiring ISPs to store all session information for a long time Data retention is there since a long time in Europe...

In some of the countries, not all of them (definitely not "for a long time"). But it is retained at the ISPs, with legally mandated security controls, except for government access. It would be better if they were not kept.

As far as I know, the only privacy of records the US law cares about is health care records, through the HIPAA act.

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#89

Post by old-gregg »

beagle3 wrote: post #87
old-gregg wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of outrage is the phenomena here, not the lack of respect for privacy. It's not that Americans don't value privacy, I think we do. Rather, it is the general attitude against outrage or, perhaps, against complaining, what differentiates the US from Europe. The country doesn't have a healthcare system for citizens outside of the military, and there's no outrage. Does this mean "there is strong evidence that USA as…

I beg to differ. You may tell that to yourself and feel better (and many Americans do), but in the grand scheme of actions-speak-louder-than-words world we live in, there is no evidence for the American respect for privacy. > Does this mean "there is strong evidence that USA as a nation" doesn't value not dying? No, but it does mean that the country does not value a social safety net as much as it values monetary pro…

You've written so many words I feel compelled to reply. Beagle, I am not arguing with you. Just pointing out that Americans aren't inclined to be outraged in general. Therefore you can't use the lack of outrage as a proof for anything, that's all.

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#90

Post by pak »

ristretto wrote: post #58
rickmb wrote: post #9

Facebook better wake up and realize that especially thanks to companies like them and their failure to self-regulate and respect privacy values outside the US, using Like-buttons for tracking is likely to become illegal in the EU and many other places in the next five years. Technically, one could argue that they already violate existing laws, but incidents like these will make absolutely sure that these practices wi…

TBH, i would like to see all the like/+1/tweet/digg buttons gone, they are a big privacy hazard. This functionality should be included in the browser or available from extensions.

Handily, the functionality to make them disappear is available in many browser extensions, like Disconnect (http://disconnect.me/).
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