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Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

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Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#51
post #35

This is a non-story for the reasons stated but a story for other reasons. It's standard that widget publishers require to use their widget "as is". That's basically what Facebook is saying. Not only do you not know what any custom modifications will necessarily do but it's a completely valid argument that you want a consistent user experience with your widget. As for user tracking, this is basically an inevitable byp…

> Facebook's track record seems to be to befuddle the user and trick or opt them into sharing things wider than they understand or want.

Are you saying that the product designers at Facebook want to design interfaces and settings that intentionally confuse users into laxer privacy settings? Turning this discussion into a rather presumptuous smear at Facebook in the face of many privacy failures by Google is rather childish.

Perhaps you're saying Google's privacy missteps were accidental, and thus tolerable. But what makes them more accidental than Facebook's? Bugs are accidental, sure, and are addressed as quickly as possible (last summer my mentor was locked in a room with a bunch of people for a week trying to fix the bugs that came up, and come up with long term solutions). As a result all privacy settings are as explicit as possible--especially with the most recent launch, the privacy settings of every single item is clear.

It is unfair to claim that Google values privacy and demonize Facebook for its privacy-related product decisions. If anything, privacy nuances are what prevented the new privacy features from launching for multiple months, as we iterated on details that an organization that cared less about privacy would have overlooked.

Here's an interesting comparison: Everything Facebook knows about me is something I or my friends entered (i.e. via tagging). In contrast, Google knows so much more about me than I told it. How did it automatically link my Quora, Twitter, etc accounts without my knowing or permission?

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#52
post #37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anyone know the equivalent Chrome extension?

I am working on it here: http://www.github.com/nikcub/parley I will have a new version out at the end of this weekend I think it is time to kill all third-party requests. If you want to show users an ad, host it from your own server.

Thanks! The only reason I am still using Firefox instead of Chromium is the availability of RequestPolicy.

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#53

I was surprised to find out that Facebook tracks not only what 'like' buttons you have been clicking but also where you have been browsing. Is there a privacy browser extension?

For Firefox, RequestPolicy adds a whitelist for requests to third-party websites. It's a hassle to set up, but it works. I don't know if an equivalent exists for Chrome.

Re Chrome, see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2957201

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#55
post #35

This is a non-story for the reasons stated but a story for other reasons. It's standard that widget publishers require to use their widget "as is". That's basically what Facebook is saying. Not only do you not know what any custom modifications will necessarily do but it's a completely valid argument that you want a consistent user experience with your widget. As for user tracking, this is basically an inevitable byp…

I would be happier if Google had a priority of not collecting user data in the first place.

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#56
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the massive usage of Facebook and Twitter, the lack of outrage over the warrantless wiretapping scandal (running for 10.5 years now), easily available voter records (see e.g. the backstory behind Latanya Sweeney's original identifiability study), and lack of public comments about requiring ISPs to store all session information for a long time - I would say that is strong evidence that USA as a nation does no…

Or the fact that all ATT (and possibly Verizon) traffic goes through the NSA.

doh! I wrote "wireless wiretapping scandal" but I meant "warrantless wiretapping scandal", which is what you are referring to explicitly. edited to note correction; Thanks!

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#58
post #9

Facebook better wake up and realize that especially thanks to companies like them and their failure to self-regulate and respect privacy values outside the US, using Like-buttons for tracking is likely to become illegal in the EU and many other places in the next five years. Technically, one could argue that they already violate existing laws, but incidents like these will make absolutely sure that these practices wi…

TBH, i would like to see all the like/+1/tweet/digg buttons gone, they are a big privacy hazard. This functionality should be included in the browser or available from extensions.

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#59
post #51
post #35

This is a non-story for the reasons stated but a story for other reasons. It's standard that widget publishers require to use their widget "as is". That's basically what Facebook is saying. Not only do you not know what any custom modifications will necessarily do but it's a completely valid argument that you want a consistent user experience with your widget. As for user tracking, this is basically an inevitable byp…

> Facebook's track record seems to be to befuddle the user and trick or opt them into sharing things wider than they understand or want. Are you saying that the product designers at Facebook want to design interfaces and settings that intentionally confuse users into laxer privacy settings? Turning this discussion into a rather presumptuous smear at Facebook in the face of many privacy failures by Google is rather ch…

> Everything Facebook knows about me is something I or my friends entered (i.e. via tagging).

No. If person x is logged into facebook, they (or rather you, as it seems you work for facebook) get an indication of every page person x is browsing that has a "like" button, whether that person presses it or not. Furthermore, even if you're logged out of facebook, there's still a couple of facebook cookies identifying the computer you've logged in from.

I'm not sure I would you believe the claim that Facebook is not using any of that info right now, but I'd probably call you an outright fraud if you said that this data is never ever going to be used for anything.

Same way for Google, BTW - they've had a better track record of not abusing the data they have, but it is possibly because we haven't heard the gory details yet, and it is not going to stay that way when their profits take a dip if they ever do - they are in it for the money, and that data is worth a lot of money.

For those reasons, my firefoxen run ABP, RequestPolicy and/or Ghostery, AND I have multiple users for job / personal / porn browsing (and other measures), and multiple browsers (chromes, firefox versions) for de-panopticlicking.

Re: Facebook doesn't like privacy countermeasures

#60

I love the privacy "oh no they're selling our data!" paranoia that people still have without considering WHY and what legitimate reasons Facebook has for sending back data when a Like button is implemented. First, they are a SOCIAL network, this data helps them figure out the engagement level with different brands that participate on the Facebook social platform. Second, in this case, the use of 2-click solution crea…

> What bothers me more is that there's a lack of consideration that there are legitimate reasons a certain level of data is collected in order to make the web more social.

It isn't for making the web more social. It's for making (e.g.) Facebook more all-knowing, which is a task on the way for more profit.

Just like the tobacco industry should be regulated against making cigarettes more addictive, privacy should be regulated -- either by attaching a mouse-over saying "warning: facebook tracks you on every page you visit that has a like button", or by limiting what and how they can collect.

The copyright issue is a red herring. Facebook could create an official "data:..." url like button that has the original image instead of linking to their server. It would be better for everyone involved, including facebook's bandwidth and the site's loading speed -- except that facebook would lose their tracking data.

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