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Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

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Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#981

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a reply (from cudgy) to my comment says this: > The vaccine does not prevent spread of Covid. Period. The smallest amount of research proves this to be the case. So what is the truth?

The commenter cudgy who posted that clearly did not do nontrivial research on this question from reliable sources. The statement is flat out false. The vaccines significantly reduce the chance of infection given identical exposure. For those who still get infected, the vaccines reduce the viral load throughout the infection, eliminate or ameliorate symptoms, and shorten the time during which an infected person is con…

> Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#982

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your second paragraph assumes our governments have the means to do that. They don't. Which breaks the logic of your conclusion. And masks do add protection. Their political leverage is null. What is gained by authorities ? There's no advantages. > if we were worried about public health, vaccination status wouldn’t be considered at all, only infection status. Ww are worried. Infection status is considered. Vaccination…

you are building a counter stance to drive a point that aims to maximize the covid problem. you can fight reality with fearmongering and projection, but facts don’t care. hospitals are only irregularly overwhelmed because of greed, not covid. the people dying are overwhelmingly likely to have a comorbidity, and the virus doesn’t care about our hysteria over masks and political misguidance when it kills them. we know…

> you are building a counter stance to drive a point that aims to maximize the covid problem.

You are trying a weird (and childish may I add) apparent mirror strategy but subtly adding twist of your own making that weren't there to drive your point that Covid is not a problem:

> we know that if we do exactly the wrong things, the pandemic and the panic is prolonged for maximal mediopolitical benefit.

Fixed:

> we know that if we do exactly the wrong things, the pandemic and the panic is prolonged.

No need to get all conspiracy on that one.

> you can fight reality with fearmongering and projection, but facts don’t care. hospitals are only irregularly overwhelmed because of greed, not covid.

They are overwhelmed and they shouldn't and they weren't 2 years ago. It'd be very weird that all around the world the hospital infrastructure just happened to show their limits at the same time and that it'd have nothing to do with the current pandemic but only with greed (I suppose you refer to the impoverishment of public hospitals). Occam's razor and all that.

Would you please wear a mask and get a vaccine or keep your distance a bit if you don't want/can't ? Thank you.

> the people dying are overwhelmingly likely to have a comorbidity, and the virus doesn’t care about our hysteria over masks and political misguidance when it kills them.

So what if they have a comorbidity ? It's still happening. There's a strong underlying current in anti-* that suggest to let people die and let selection plays its game. Are you advocating for that ?

Unfortunately for your weak ass arguments the virus does care about masking in the sense that it hinders its efforts to infect us. Vaccination is also shown to work.

> we know that if we do exactly the wrong things, the pandemic and the panic is prolonged for maximal mediopolitical benefit.

Ah yes, the media and the politics are manufacturing a crisis. Media do it to make money (or something) and politicians to their benefit (whatever that is).

You rather believe in a pharma-political conspiracy to manufacture a global pandemic than face the fact life is unfair and unpredictable ? You rather believe that behind the shadows there's someone that is pulling the strings over all this for their own political or financial gains because then it would make the world less scary, less unjust ? I am sorry, this is not how the world works. Things are fucked up and it's not fair and it's not (y)our fault but it is what it is.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#983

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would have been much faster if regulators and ethicists hadn’t been so squeamish about challenge trials. In order to save dozens of lives that might have been lost in challenge trials, we sacrificed hundreds of thousands of lives so that we could wait for more ethically-sound vaccine trials to complete.

Throwing ethical standards in the bin "for the greater good" is never a good idea.

It is a good idea when the ethical standards are bad and get replaced by better ones.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#984

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The commenter cudgy who posted that clearly did not do nontrivial research on this question from reliable sources. The statement is flat out false. The vaccines significantly reduce the chance of infection given identical exposure. For those who still get infected, the vaccines reduce the viral load throughout the infection, eliminate or ameliorate symptoms, and shorten the time during which an infected person is con…

> Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory. https://www.thelancet.c…

That doesn’t contradict what I wrote, though obviously there is a lot more detail and nuance that could be added here.

A few months after the second dose, 2 doses of the mRNA vaccines is insufficient to reduce peak viral load for breakthrough infections by the delta variant of the virus, making the vaccine less effective over time at preventing basic transmission and mild illness (the 2-dose vaccine was more effective with previous variants). However, a booster dose seems to make a significant improvement:

> By analyzing viral loads of over 16,000 infections during the current, Delta-variant-dominated pandemic wave in Israel, we found that BTIs in recently fully vaccinated individuals have lower viral loads than infections in unvaccinated individuals. However, this effect starts to decline 2 months after vaccination and ultimately vanishes 6 months or longer after vaccination. Notably, we found that the effect of BNT162b2 on reducing BTI viral loads is restored after a booster dose. These results suggest that BNT162b2 might decrease the infectiousness of BTIs even with the Delta variant, and that, although this protective effect declines with time, it can be restored, at least temporarily, with a third, booster, vaccine dose.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01575-4

* * *

For the omicron variant, there is still further reduced effectiveness of these vaccines on basic transmission and mild illness (only 70% effectiveness after a 3 shots; I don’t think there’s much data yet about viral loads), though protection against severe illness should still be robust (but reliable data about this will not be available for another few weeks or months).

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#985

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to what I heard through the Covid update of work. Omicron settles more in the nose and not as much in the long ( their source was a doctor). Although it's too early to be sure, it would explain both an increased transmissibility and a milder variant.

You understand that what you said is pure nonsense right?

And...

Research from just today confirmed that it's more in the nose and less in the lung. Which is exactly what i mentioned.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-15/omicron-i...

...

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#986

Moderna is working on a vaccine targeting the Omicron variant for 2022.[1] The mRNA vaccine technology is "agile". There's a workflow from sequencing a virus to generating a candidate vaccine. It only took two days to generate the original COVID-19 vaccine. It's the clinical testing in small, then large groups that's the time consuming part. Also, the inhaled vaccines are entering clinical testing.[2] It's not like w…

Moderna CEO equity sales for the last couple years. Nothing to see here, no reason to distrust them pushing endless boosters: https://finance.yahoo.com/screener/insider/BANCEL%20STEPHANE...

Here[0] is a better website to look at this data. He started selling in November 2019, before the pandemic, and has kept a steady-ish pace. If there is a pharma agenda here for endless boosters, why is he not accumulating/holding rather than off-loading his shares?

0: https://www.secform4.com/insider-trading/1443340.htm

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#987

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory. https://www.thelancet.c…

That doesn’t contradict what I wrote, though obviously there is a lot more detail and nuance that could be added here. A few months after the second dose, 2 doses of the mRNA vaccines is insufficient to reduce peak viral load for breakthrough infections by the delta variant of the virus, making the vaccine less effective over time at preventing basic transmission and mild illness (the 2-dose vaccine was more effectiv…

I am not saying it contradicts, just thought it is worth noting. I am not having a battle here. :)

In any case... from what I heard, the omicron variant is somewhat close to common cold, and that it causes mild symptoms. If that is the case, then this is good news, especially if this applies to everyone, or most.

If this omicron variant is indeed much less severe, then would it not be a good thing for as many people as possible to go through it and develop immunity?

Some recent findings and whatnot:

> How SARS-CoV-2 evolves over the next several months and years will determine what the end of this global crisis looks like — whether the virus morphs into another common cold or into something more threatening such as influenza or worse.[1]

> Yet researchers expect such gains to become ever smaller. Scientists measure a virus’s inherent ability to spread in an immunologically naive population (that is, unvaccinated and not exposed to the virus previously) by a number called R0, which is the average number of people an infected person infects. Since the start of the pandemic this figure has jumped as much as threefold. “At some point, I would expect that increased transmissibility will stop happening,” says Bloom. “It’s not going to become infinitely transmissible.” Delta’s R0 is higher than seasonal coronaviruses and influenza, but still lower than that of polio or measles.[1]

Might be of interest:

> That evolutionary path, towards immune evasion and away from gains in infectivity, is common among established respiratory viruses such as influenza says Adam Kucharski, a mathematical epidemiologist at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. “The easiest way for the virus to cause new epidemics is to evade immunity over time. That’s similar to what we see with the seasonal coronaviruses.”[1]

and

> A more likely, but still relatively hopeful, parallel for SARS-CoV-2 is a pathogen called respiratory syncytial virus (RSV). Most people get infected in their first two years of life. RSV is a leading cause of hospitalization of infants, but most childhood cases are mild. Waning immunity and viral evolution together allow new strains of RSV to sweep across the planet each year, infecting adults in large numbers, but with mild symptoms thanks to childhood exposure. If SARS-CoV-2 follows this path — aided by vaccines that provide strong protection against severe disease — “it becomes essentially a virus of kids,” says Rambaut.[1]

and

> Influenza offers another scenario — in fact two. The influenza A virus, which drives global seasonal influenza epidemics each year, is characterized by the rapid evolution and spread of new variants able to escape the immunity elicited by past strains. The result is seasonal epidemics, propelled largely by spread in adults, who can still develop severe symptoms. Flu jabs reduce disease severity and slow transmission, but influenza A’s fast evolution means the vaccines aren’t always well matched to circulating strains.[1]

> But if SARS-CoV-2 evolves to evade immunity more sluggishly, it might come to resemble influenza B. That virus’s slower rate of change, compared with influenza A, means that its transmission is driven largely by infections in children, who have less immunity than adults.[1]

That said:

> “There may be multiple directions that the virus can go in,” Rambaut says, “and the virus hasn’t committed.”[1]

So I suppose we will see. I am hoping for something like common cold. Mild symptoms. I am also hoping to get rid of some of these mandates and this COVID-19 pass stuff in the future, but once it is in place, do you think it is likely that they will revert it? I do not know, but I hope they will.

I cannot get the vaccines for health reasons, but I am unlikely to get a medical exemption as my country is full of idiots. Other countries do give exemption to immunocompromised people, whereas my country prioritizes them. I wonder if I could get a religious exemption. But yeah, the vaccines might give me a flare-up of whatever I have, and I would rather not risk it. My immune system is in a tough spot with all the inflammations going on, on top of some autoimmune disease. I hope to treat some I can.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03619-8 (Beyond Omicron: what’s next for COVID’s viral evolution, 07 December 2021)

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#988
post #915

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sigh. In which case all medicine is experimental, because it's all being studied all the time.

most of which the companies have not been shielded against, like in this case, and again most of which was not developed in a rushed fashion to address an immediate need. have you forgotten about the people having heart issues after receiving the shot?

Not at all, but they are a tiny number of people from the multiple billions now vaccinated, and the vast majority of them recover just fine.

This is a very safe vaccine, far safer than getting covid (at any age) and that wouldn't make it 'experimental' anyway.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#989

There are a few important bits here: First: "The study by Discovery Health, South Africa’s largest health insurer, of 211,000 positive coronavirus cases, of which 78,000 were attributed to omicron, showed that risk of hospital admissions among adults who contracted covid-19 was 29 percent lower than in the initial pandemic wave that emerged in March 2020." and second: "At the same time, the vaccine may offer 70 perce…

Just 29% lower is nothing . NOTHING. Of all people, the YC News crowd really ought to understand that O(exp(n)) overwhelms O(1) literally exponentially. Not figuratively. Literally. If a virus variant has a constant factor reduction in its side-effects, but a higher exponential factor in infectiousness, the latter will overwhelm the former in short order, and then continue to overwhelm it even more . Exponentially. L…

The human population is finite, and exponential growth hits its bounds pretty quickly. In the long run, if you assume that most non vaccinated and a large part of the vaccinated will eventually get COVID (probably the case), then the 29% reduction in mortality does, actually result in a 29% reduction in mortality, and the exact same number of people will have been infected either way.

The difference will be in timing; the people will have been infected more quickly, with the (severe) problems that entails.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#990

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t contradict what I wrote, though obviously there is a lot more detail and nuance that could be added here. A few months after the second dose, 2 doses of the mRNA vaccines is insufficient to reduce peak viral load for breakthrough infections by the delta variant of the virus, making the vaccine less effective over time at preventing basic transmission and mild illness (the 2-dose vaccine was more effectiv…

I am not saying it contradicts, just thought it is worth noting. I am not having a battle here. :) In any case... from what I heard, the omicron variant is somewhat close to common cold, and that it causes mild symptoms. If that is the case, then this is good news, especially if this applies to everyone, or most. If this omicron variant is indeed much less severe, then would it not be a good thing for as many people…

> the omicron variant is somewhat close to common cold, and that it causes mild symptoms

No, we don’t have anywhere near enough data yet to draw that conclusion.

What we know for sure is that it generally doesn’t cause hospitalization/death among people that have previously been infected by Covid or vaccinated. Which is generally true for every variant. And we also know that it has a significant degree of immune escape, causing a much higher rate of reinfections / breakthrough infections than previous variants.

It may be that it turns out to cause less severe disease even for the immunologically naïve, and many observers are hopeful that that turns out to be the case.

> cannot get the vaccines for health reasons

I would recommend you consult a physician who is an expert in your condition before making this decision.

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