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Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

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Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#171

Post by p1necone »

chris_wot wrote: post #156
tptacek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep talking about kids, but your own advertising talks about spouses using this. That's considerably less benign.

Voluntarily using it. Not sure what is not benign about this.

A relationship that involves one partner snooping on the others phone like this is not a healthy relationship. If trust is eroded to that level the solution is counseling, separation or divorce. Not 24/7 surveillance - that's insane.

Not to mention people in abusive relationships who might be coerced into using this. Just because they're aware it's on their phone doesn't mean it isn't being used to control them.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#172

Post by ghostly_s »

openthc wrote: post #50
ghostly_s wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What regulation requires you to publish an app? That strikes me as very unusual.

Nothing requires us to publish an app -- but when you make LOB software, the user-base is like "where's the App?" -- so you build one. It's not a strict, absolute requirement -- it's a de-facto requirement (like passing to the left)

what? how does that have anything to do with regulatory compliance then?

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#173

Post by melff »

Well what you encountered here is IMHO a problem of power, not a problem with your App, guidelines, your marketing, or whatever. The problem is that a third party has the power to stop your customers from using your software. Many people don't have a problem with that until they are negatively affected by it: It's fine to block [insert whatever kind of shitty software you don't like], it's for the users own good afterall.

You are under apples control on the iOS market. And, in my opinion, that's a bad thing. We should try to denormalize this kind of power.

To answer your question: I don't think you can do anything about that especially since your app(judging form the other comments here on HN) ended up on the wrong side of history.

This situation reminds me of a nice little poem by Martin Niemöller:

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#174

Post by jordanthoms »

openthc wrote: post #50
ghostly_s wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What regulation requires you to publish an app? That strikes me as very unusual.

Nothing requires us to publish an app -- but when you make LOB software, the user-base is like "where's the App?" -- so you build one. It's not a strict, absolute requirement -- it's a de-facto requirement (like passing to the left)

Did you try with a PWA? Discoverability can be hard vs having an App Store listing but I wonder if that would satisfy your user-base if you made it into a nice experience

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#175

Post by p1necone »

bmurphy1976 wrote: post #168
tptacek wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For "OurPact", the third comparable app, there's this fun review: For the “premium” level with all the controls (which frankly is the service level any responsible parent will want), you have to back each kid’s phone up to iTunes on your (parent) laptop, then erase and reinstall each one with a new OurPact-controlled OS. I'm starting to see a pattern here.

I don't have any familiarity with the other apps in this space, but I am a heavy (and happy) user of OurPact. OurPact adds a lot of parental management features (including a remote kill) which the Apple controls are desperately missing. The backup is taken at install time and it's perfectly reasonable to do so. The backup is stored local on your computer using the standard backup mechanisms, it's not uploaded to the…

You're just teaching your kids that they can't trust you with anything. They'll probably borrow old devices from friends and keep them hidden anyway. And don't be surprised when they hide parties, alcohol etc from you, even when they might need your help.

You might think you're doing something positive here - but all you're doing is ensuring that your kids will forever treat you as an adversary. Don't be surprised when they leave home after high school and never speak to you again.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#176

Post by melff »

Jonovono wrote: post #25

I think we will be moving back to web apps (PWA). The app store was always a hack and the web3 movement is incompatable with app stores. I'm working on a mobile browser for PWAs https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/wapps-private-minimal-browser/...

moving everything into the browser is a bad fix for broken software distribution.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#177

Post by oneplane »

jgod wrote: post #141
oneplane wrote: post #30

Your software sounds like malware. If I came across it I would probably make a YARA rule against it to purge it from any managed network I control.

Your managed network sounds like malware. It intercepts, hijacks, records, blocks, etc. -- and all without the need for the user's continuous permission and knowledge.

Our managed networks are company property and if you try to install spyware on it you'll be kicked off. All of that is in the contract that you sign when you join the workforce. It also is not your personal network to toy with.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#178

Post by oneplane »

chris_wot wrote: post #165
jgod wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your managed network sounds like malware. It intercepts, hijacks, records, blocks, etc. -- and all without the need for the user's continuous permission and knowledge.

I think that's a valid point. Does their managed network do monitoring? Isn't that as bad as this app?

Then you think wrong. If you join the workforce and want to access sensitive corporate information there will be access control and other security measures to make sure you are who you say you are, the information goes where it is allowed to go, and that if something out of the ordinary happens, the SOC gets to know about it.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#179

Post by JadeNB »

jtbayly wrote: post #118
tptacek wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're asking me? Ok: it should not be possible for you to install surreptitious screen recording software on an iPhone. The problem isn't that this app got blocked; it's that all the other ones (except maybe that one app that only records screenshots when you use their browser ) aren't banned. But this is totally besides the point. We're not discussing what Apple's rules ought to be. We're trying to help figure out…

This is what you wrote that I was responding to: "cards on the table: none of these apps should be allowed on the app store." I'm hoping you've simply not really thought this through. We can't demand that parents be held accountable for what their children do while also forbidding parents from knowing what their children are reading, watching, writing, hearing, or saying.

> We can't demand that parents be held accountable for what their children do while also forbidding parents from knowing what their children are reading, watching, writing, hearing, or saying.

There's no reason that knowledge has to be garnered surreptitiously. (If your answer is "if it's not surreptitious, then kids will try to bypass it" … well, they will anyway.)

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#180

Post by jgod »

oneplane wrote: post #177
jgod wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your managed network sounds like malware. It intercepts, hijacks, records, blocks, etc. -- and all without the need for the user's continuous permission and knowledge.

Our managed networks are company property and if you try to install spyware on it you'll be kicked off. All of that is in the contract that you sign when you join the workforce. It also is not your personal network to toy with.

So the head of the household should issue corporate MDM software/devices to his family and self instead of the much easier route of consumer software.
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