I make rather nerdy music and art apps full time, and being shut down by Apple still worries me. What if I said the wrong thing on twitter? Very unlikely but it pisses me off that they can push the cancel button on by business. I didn't really realize this until the past few years, with significant time invested in the platform.
Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting
161–170 of 235 posts
Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
> install it on their children's phones without consent That's a curious phrasing. Are you implying a parent needs consent from their minor child to install something, anything they deem appropriate, on "their" phone?
I would feel deeply uncomfortable if a parent (or anyone, really) were able to essentially listen in on every conversation I have. A tool that goes this far with monitoring really needs to be installed with consent from all parties.
This kind of software is not used by people in healthy relationships.
Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting
#163I‘m sorry for You. I can see how you‘d think that your software is providing society a service. And yet from my perspective your software is malware. I don’t think you have considered the legal ramifications of your software in all markets where the app store is offered. Aside from the legal risk to You, there is also a reputational risk to Apple, a company trying to rebrand itself by focussing on privacy (CSAM nonwi…
> And yet from my perspective your software is malware. At first I thought exactly this. This app is disclosing what it does, in the open. The product is very direct and clear what it does, and how it does it. One of the hallmarks of malware is that is is doing things without the user knowing, or in many cases wanting. The only way I would install this is if I wanted it to do exactly what it does. > Do you have safeg…
With regards to the last point. Truple offers end-to-end encryption. We also permanently delete all accountability data once it's 15 days old. Not saying it's without risk, just that I've done everything I can to mitigate the risks of data getting into hands it shouldn't.
Competitors currently allowed by Apple don't offer end-to-end encryption. Most delete data eventually, but 15 days is the shortest retention I'm aware of.
Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting
#164This is going to sound facetious, but at what point do you have to create an entirely new identity for yourself? Change your name, perhaps get a passport from another nation that legally sells citizenship, perhaps get a new SSN, just to get around issues like this?
I guess an alternative would be to rent the identity of a homeless person, or perhaps the ID of someone on death row?
Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting
#165Your software sounds like malware. If I came across it I would probably make a YARA rule against it to purge it from any managed network I control.
Your managed network sounds like malware. It intercepts, hijacks, records, blocks, etc. -- and all without the need for the user's continuous permission and knowledge.
I think that's a valid point. Does their managed network do monitoring? Isn't that as bad as this app?
Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting
#166This is the main reason why I am not interested in being an app developer. Your business is in the hands of someone who can cut you off and get away with not even giving you the time of day. Not worth the risk. (That being said: I'm not sure I would have approved an app like yours since it is designed to invade privacy)
The business in this case is from a religious extremist and this kind of software is very frequently used without the user's consent.
Do you have any evidence of the software being used without the end user's consent?
Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting
#167I'm not in support of censorship, surveillance, locked-down devices. I think you should have moved on within months of being banned for creating this thing. Your responses are odd to me as well. Use some self-control and restraint and stop looking at porn if it's an issue to you. While I would certainly not wish for anyone to lose their livelihood, to me it seems that you've had plenty of ample time to go off and develop something else on another platform. Best of luck to you. Please don't make any more censorship/surveillance apps.
Edit to add: I've also got several children and have been married for 12 years. I would not install anything like this for any of them. If you can't trust your wife, you can't trust your wife. Just the way it is. Spying on her, and spying on your children is gross and does not create any sort of trust.
Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Ever Accountable", another example, only works for a small list of applications --- if you're not on their VPN, you even have to use their browser. Your application takes random screenshots and advertises that it's hard to bypass, which is kind of the opposite of what "Ever Accountable" claims.
For "OurPact", the third comparable app, there's this fun review: For the “premium” level with all the controls (which frankly is the service level any responsible parent will want), you have to back each kid’s phone up to iTunes on your (parent) laptop, then erase and reinstall each one with a new OurPact-controlled OS. I'm starting to see a pattern here.
I don't have any familiarity with the other apps in this space, but I am a heavy (and happy) user of OurPact. OurPact adds a lot of parental management features (including a remote kill) which the Apple controls are desperately missing.
The backup is taken at install time and it's perfectly reasonable to do so. The backup is stored local on your computer using the standard backup mechanisms, it's not uploaded to the cloud.
The installation process is actually opting the device into an enterprise management profile, not a custom OS. That custom OS blurb sounds like some goofy marketing speak or misunderstanding how this process works. The management profile allows OurPact to manage the device on your behalf using the same APIs any enterprise device management vendor would use.
Once the device is opted into the management profile, it's quite obvious it's under control and you have a lot of options including setting time limits on app, enabling various child protection features, preventing apps from being deleted, and most importantly choosing what apps are available and creating schedules for the device (i.e. disabling games during school hours/night).
Nothing about this process hides the fact that the device is managed. There is an OurPact Jr app that can be installed which gives the owner visibility into the schedule. I highly recommend reading the reviews by upset children for the OurPact Jr app on the app store. They are hilarious.
Anyway, my point is as a parent with a tech background and 3 children, OurPact has been a very useful and positive addition to our home life. They've been a good steward. They are limited in what they can do by Apple, but what they have done they have been very transparent and communicative.
Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Suppose I'm addicted to porn and that it's damaging my marriage. I want to be free of it. But when I pick my phone up, I'm tempted to view it. I know I want to be free of it. I don't want my life to suffer any more as a result of it. But I need help, because in those weaker moments my will power isn't sufficient. This is where making it difficult to bypass comes in. Keep in mind difficult do bypass doesn't equal "can…
To be honest, I don’t believe you. “Our app will only be used by people on themselves in order to change their own behavior” is a wildly implausible use case to focus on for what is effectively spyware. My takeaway is that I’m beginning to think that Apple was correct in blocking your app.
And in particular, there's a whole section that reads "With Truple, you can virtually "peek" over your child's shoulder & course-correct as needed."
So right there it's admitting that the intended use is to spy on someone else (in this case, "your kids"). I'm with you here. I just don't believe OP on this one.
Apple thinks this is a spying app, and they don't want it on their platform.
Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting
#170Wow, what an absolute mess of a thread. Awful comments.