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Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

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Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#111

Post by agentdrtran »

camhart wrote: post #2

Some may not agree with the use of parental control/accountability software. That's fine. Truple is not designed for you. There are tons of people who are negatively impacted by technology and they desperately need/want help. They should have the option to get it, and there should be competition in the space to deliver the best product for them. In today's world, using the internet is a part of life, and isn't someth…

Any software like this will, without fail, be used by abusers to do things other than blocking pornography. If it only did that one thing this wouldn't be a problem.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#112

Post by DavidSJ »

nerdjon wrote: post #47

You said other apps are fine, but are those other apps advertising themselves as parental controls or as stalking software? I took a look at your website https://truple.io and... there is very little mention of this being for parents. TBH looking at the website is... deeply concerning for anyone that would legitimately want to use this product. Especially on a spouse?!? I am willing to bet part of the issue is the ta…

Note that parental control apps are a type of stalking software; it's just that society is okay with it.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#113

Post by tptacek »

jtbayly wrote: post #109
tptacek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For instance, "Covenant Eye" (which: holy shit, how creepy is this!) always blurs screenshots. Yours apparently does opt-in blurring. I'm interested in the detective project of figuring out what red lines your app may have crossed, just because it's interesting. But cards on the table: none of these apps should be allowed on the app store. Maybe Apple just hasn't gotten around to shutting down "Covenant Eye" yet.

Should I, or should I not be allowed to run whatever applications I want on my phone? Should I, or should I not be forbidden from filtering the internet for myself ? Meanwhile, the content I see is filtered by FB, Twitter, etc. Why should their desires rule mine on my device? Should I, or should I not be forbidden from seeking help accomplishing my own goals for online use, in particular accountability for giving up…

You're asking me? Ok: it should not be possible for you to install surreptitious screen recording software on an iPhone. The problem isn't that this app got blocked; it's that all the other ones (except maybe that one app that only records screenshots when you use their browser) aren't banned.

But this is totally besides the point. We're not discussing what Apple's rules ought to be. We're trying to help figure out what they are. That's what the author of this app asked us to do.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#114

Post by camhart »

tptacek wrote: post #96
camhart wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the MacOS app.

Respectfully, no. The Mac App store is not interesting in this discussion; you can install any app your want on a Mac (not necessarily via the App Store, but that's fine for a number of very big businesses that ship Mac software). What we're interested in here is the iOS App Store, which is the only way to realistically install commercial software on an iPhone.

This entire discussion is about Mac apps. My account was frozen when I attempted to notarize a MacOS app. I have not (yet) tried to submit an iOS app.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#115

Post by tptacek »

camhart wrote: post #114
tptacek wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, no. The Mac App store is not interesting in this discussion; you can install any app your want on a Mac (not necessarily via the App Store, but that's fine for a number of very big businesses that ship Mac software). What we're interested in here is the iOS App Store, which is the only way to realistically install commercial software on an iPhone.

This entire discussion is about Mac apps. My account was frozen when I attempted to notarize a MacOS app. I have not (yet) tried to submit an iOS app.

Oh! That makes a lot more sense. Disregard my previous comment! ("Notarization" should have been my tip-off).

... why are you trying to sell this app via the Mac App Store in the first place?

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#116

Post by jtbayly »

nyuszika7h wrote: post #28
umvi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet from my perspective your software is malware. So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people. I have a good married friend who uses parental control software on himself to reduce the temptation to look at porn. It basically just gives his wife access to his browsing history. Sure, he could bypass it a number of ways if he was really determined, but it's more about just raising th…

> So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people. It's not that simple. You are purposefully bringing up an extremely rare use case to detract from the fact that 99% of users of this software are going to be abusive parents who install it on their children's phones without consent. (Or heck, maybe even abusive spouses.) If parents are that concerned, even banning their children from "innoc…

> You are purposefully bringing up an extremely rare use case to detract from the fact that 99% of users of this software are going to be abusive parents

What exactly is abusive about me wanting to know if my 6 year old is watching porn?

Are parents that signed up for Youtube Kids abusive, too? Is Google abusive for filtering the videos? And are all those who shared articles about how porn was showing up in YTKids abusive for letting parents know that their children might have been exposed to mature material?

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#117

Post by mdoms »

newaccount74 wrote: post #88
camhart wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You said other apps are fine, but are those other apps advertising themselves as parental controls or as stalking software? Search for "accountability software", and you'll find apps advertised in a very similar manner that have had no issues with Apple, with absolutely no mentioning of parental controls. > I took a look at your website https://truple.io and... there is very little mention of this being for parents…

> Search for "accountability software", and you'll find apps advertised in a very similar manner I googled a bit and found [1] and [2]. Their marketing is very very different from yours [3]. [1] looks very tasteful, considering they are basically spyware. It's a very positive spin with great copywriting. [2] gives me some Christian vibes, it's not for me, but it still looks decent. [3] on the other hand just looks re…

> It's a question of taste. Great Mac and iPhone are done very tastefully. Truple is missing that.

It is wild to me that there is a megacorporation whose subjective opinion of "tastefulness" (based on their own North American cultural norms) is a gate to software delivery and that there is an entire category of users who actually think this is a good thing.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#118

Post by jtbayly »

tptacek wrote: post #113
jtbayly wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should I, or should I not be allowed to run whatever applications I want on my phone? Should I, or should I not be forbidden from filtering the internet for myself ? Meanwhile, the content I see is filtered by FB, Twitter, etc. Why should their desires rule mine on my device? Should I, or should I not be forbidden from seeking help accomplishing my own goals for online use, in particular accountability for giving up…

You're asking me? Ok: it should not be possible for you to install surreptitious screen recording software on an iPhone. The problem isn't that this app got blocked; it's that all the other ones (except maybe that one app that only records screenshots when you use their browser ) aren't banned. But this is totally besides the point. We're not discussing what Apple's rules ought to be. We're trying to help figure out…

This is what you wrote that I was responding to: "cards on the table: none of these apps should be allowed on the app store."

I'm hoping you've simply not really thought this through. We can't demand that parents be held accountable for what their children do while also forbidding parents from knowing what their children are reading, watching, writing, hearing, or saying.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#119

Post by aetch »

camhart wrote: post #82
nerdjon wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked up a few alternatives and your website and marketing tell a very different story. "Online filth" is in your website header, so your kinda focusing on them. I looked at the reviews and your most recent one continues to reinforce something about "filth" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.camhart.ne... As far as not being used "on" someone. Again you have reviews from Spouses and Parents which wo…

Suppose I'm addicted to porn and that it's damaging my marriage. I want to be free of it. But when I pick my phone up, I'm tempted to view it. I know I want to be free of it. I don't want my life to suffer any more as a result of it. But I need help, because in those weaker moments my will power isn't sufficient. This is where making it difficult to bypass comes in. Keep in mind difficult do bypass doesn't equal "can…

You need to tell us what gym you go to because your mental gymnastics are on another level.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#120

Post by camhart »

ashtonkem wrote: post #104
camhart wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put on the hat of the end user. Keep in mind the end user is a child, or someone struggling with an online addiction/behavior they want to quit. They welcome the app, but those issues are somewhat personal. There's a balancing act I'm trying to walk here, of being reasonably suspicious while also not publishing for everyone who peeks over their shoulder that they're using an app like this. Again, if the red dot matte…

> Put on the hat of the end user. Keep in mind the end user is a child, or someone struggling with an online addiction/behavior they want to quit. They welcome the app, but those issues are somewhat personal. This sure as hell reads to me like you’re trying to hide the fact that you’re recording vulnerable user’s screens from them.

You can read into it however you want. It wasn't my intention.
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