What does a Principal Software Engineer do? • Hacker News Board

Re: What does a Principal Software Engineer do?

#171

Post by LargeWu » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 3:53 PM UTC

spydum wrote: post #149

LargeWu wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't make you a bad engineer, but it does, generally, put a ceiling on the value you are able to provide to the company. Individual contributors can only get so much done in a given amount of time, and over a long enough time scale, are generally interchangeable with one another. Sure, you might have some specialized knowledge or understand system X better than anybody else, but there's diminishing returns on t…

Agree with this pretty strongly. However there is something I've observed: org multipliers can exist without managing people. HR generally doesnt know what to do with them. It's almost unreasonable to call them ICs, but there you have it.

This to me is a principle or architect role.

Re: What does a Principal Software Engineer do?

#172

Post by CodeMage » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

LargeWu wrote: post #170

akiselev wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it eventually stops being about your direct technical contributions and about your ability to multiply the value of everybody under you in your org. I thought that was the whole point of the IC track: putting a technical person into a role where they can be a multiplier without burdening them with management responsibilities. Every staff/principle/architect IC I've ever worked with has had that kind of positive eff…

Parent was explicitly stating they didn't want to climb the career ladder. i.e. They wanted to remain at a Sr Engineer level perpetually, but also not have their salary stagnate. I don't disagree that principle engineers can and should have a big multiplying effect, but I also wouldn't consider them strictly IC's either, even if they don't have people managing duties.

> They wanted to remain at a Sr Engineer level perpetually, but also not have their salary stagnate.

Pretty much that, except that I wouldn't use the word "stagnate". What I said was "lag behind the cost of living", which might not have been the most concise way of putting it, but I hoped it would get my point across.

Essentially, the conundrum I've faced too often is that if you're not climbing the ladder, the purchasing power of your salary will start falling, even if your salary rises, because the raises you get reflect the lack of regard the company has for people who aren't climbing the ladder.

Stagnation, for me, would be to stay at the more-or-less same purchasing power. And I would be fine with that.

Re: What does a Principal Software Engineer do?

#173

Post by CodeMage » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 4:16 PM UTC

monkeybutton wrote: post #150

CodeMage wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm waiting to find a place that won't push me to keep advancing up the career ladder, without leaving my salary lagging behind the rising cost of living. Does having limited ambition make you a bad dev/engineer, if you keep learning new things and contributing quality code at your current level of responsibility?

What will you do when you're in your 50s? I've seen what happens to older developers, they're one layoff from being totally screwed. Ageism is a real problem in the industry and it motivates me to keep advancing.

I don't know. I really don't, and that's scary. I've been programming since I was 7 years old, on a ZX Spectrum 48k, and now that I'm 40+, it's been a long, long time. And in all that time, I've never really wanted to be the guy who has to be responsible for a bunch of other people. All I've ever enjoyed about software development was being elbow-deep in code, and learning new things. And now that I'm older, I'm starting to get scared that the world doesn't appreciate people like that.

Re: What does a Principal Software Engineer do?

#174

Post by joconde » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 5:15 AM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #151

xmprt wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, having a title is a good way to know if you're being compensated appropriately. If you see someone 2 levels above you working on much less impactful projects then perhaps it's time to have a conversation with your manager about pay or time to start looking for new jobs.

Why do you feel you should be paid more because you feel you are doing more work? You are paid the least amount possible to fill your position during the hiring cycle. Your worth is what the market will pay you. The fact that someone else is doing more or less with a higher title shouldn't influence your life at all. Jealousy shouldn't tell you when you should look for a job. If you are unhappy leave if you are happy…

That sounds weird. Are you saying that doing more work than better-paid employees shouldn’t be an argument during salary negotiations?

Re: What does a Principal Software Engineer do?

#175

Post by mathgladiator » Thu, Dec 16, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

posharma wrote: post #123

mathgladiator wrote: post #102

I'm a principal engineer for the next 3.5 days, and then I retire. The key element is that you are half technical and other half people. You could say the other half is political, but that's just what happens when you get a bunch of people together. The key is that larger companies are hard to steer. You can't have N engineers in N directions, and you need to point them in direction. The way I look at it from a techn…

Would it be fair to say that half of the job is project/program management?

Not in my experience. I think a key thing is that a principal engineer is technical glue. You run around talking people getting insight on what is happening on the front-line, and then you nudge things in directions such that the game wins.

Does this meaning providing tactical insight for the project? yes.

Does this mean questioning priorities and aligning priorities? yes.

Does this mean that making sure the department is sustainable on hiring objectives? yes.

You could say that the role is being a smart technical person that is responsible at the level of "almost stake holder". A key thing here is that a principal engineer should also have significant stock. At a big company, this should be in the seven figures.

Re: What does a Principal Software Engineer do?

#176

Post by renox » Tue, Dec 21, 2021, 3:49 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #125

makecheck wrote: post #92

Having been at several companies, I think I was happiest about my career when I didn’t have a fancy title and did not really know anyone else’s either (aside from obvious managers). It was nicer just knowing who’s in charge of what thing , and seeing your influence grow as you are trusted with more things . When I see titles, it just makes unhelpful thoughts enter my head, like: are all these people “at my level” rea…

I hadn't thought about it in this context before, but I used to train Kendo ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendo ), a Japanese martial art, a long time ago. One interesting thing is that Kendo doesn't have belts like most other martial arts, the principle being that seeing the color of someone's belt causes you to prejudge their ability. Ideally, you should only know how good they are by actually training/fighting w…

A long time ago, Judo didn't have color belt either, they added it for the Europeans so that they could see their progression..

That's one benefit but I think that the main benefit is that when you've a high level, you'll know that this guy in front of you is a beginner and you'll go soft on him, which is quite important: if he doesn't know how to fall properly the beginner could be injured if the "high level" guy doesn't notice in time..