Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#951

Post by johnisgood » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

nikolay wrote: post #821

johnisgood wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before 2020, no mRNA technology platform (drug or vaccine) had been authorized for use in humans, so there was a risk of unknown effects.[79] The 2020 COVID-19 pandemic required faster production capability of mRNA vaccines, made them attractive to national health organisations, and led to debate about the type of initial authorization mRNA vaccines should get (including emergency use authorization or expanded acce…

No vaccine would have been authorized on billions of people before 2020 if it had such prevalent incidence of peri- and myocarditis! But now it's authorized even of toddlers, which have even higher chance for future heart issues! And all this, because politicians didn't have the balls to keep the face mask mandates!

And in comparison to COVID-19? Do they actually need a vaccine to protect against COVID-19? If not, are we giving it to them in the chance that it reduces spread, or why? It has been said it reduces spread, but this is not what you observe in countries that are >80% fully vaccinated (at least double dose), so I do not get it.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#952

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #894

spookthesunset wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you understand that your level of fear is irrelevant from virus perspective? Sars-cov-2 doesn’t care about your feelings. The way you talk scares me more than the virus. It is so authoritarian and creepy. So many of my tech worker colleagues talk the same way. It’s abuse. People that talk your way are the kinds of people that commit grave atrocities in the name of some cause you are 100% bought into. You do not…

The virus can’t have feelings, it’s not even a living thing and will not react to your courage. If that’s authoritarian so be it, the meaning of the word must have changed. You know what’s part of the nature? lions, crocodiles and sharks and yet I’m not going to let them eat me. Earthquakes are natural too and you build accordingly, actually the evil governments even implemented building codes for it. 20 years ago I…

[deleted]

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#953

Post by johnchristopher » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

988747 wrote: post #924

johnchristopher wrote: post #564

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> we'll get reinfected regularly, thus developing resistance to more malignant strains. Clearly not how it works and not what's happening. We are not developing resistance to more malignant strains so far despite the virus and its variants spreading. Plus, mild symptoms when contagious are not indicators for long term covid damages on organs. Want to take the risk ? > That's how we beat flu, which, believe or not, wa…

>> We didn't beat flu. We still need vaccines every year. Seriously? I thought flu vaccines were just a hipster thing: something you do to look cool, but they don't really matter much. In my country only 4% of people take them, and we don't have many flu-related deaths.

Diabetics and older people are strongly advised to take it. That surely helped cementing the "it's a flu" when most of the deaths are old people. Also, we don't have many flu-related deaths because it either turns into emphyzema or other pulmonary complications which are the cause of death. Or the vaccine did its job.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#954

Post by azekai » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 3:56 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #814

QuarterReptile wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I feel like I repeat myself. Would someone who is flagging this comment please, instead, respond to it? If it is so trivially dismissed, please show the rest of us.

The argument that this is a semantic game is not a very good one. The whole point of the article is to demonstrate that there really is no such thing as a sterilizing vaccine; As our scientific knowledge and technology has improved over the years we see that.

The Atlantic article says, and I quote: "microbiologists can’t even agree on what an infection actually is." This seems to have the sole aim of shutting down discussion, basically throwing up one's hands and saying 'who knows.'

In any case, the term 'sterilizing' may not be one hundred percent biologically accurate any more, but denying that there are no sterilizing vaccines isn't really addressing the issue. So there are no 'sterilizing vaccines.' I think we can all agree that we want a COVID vaccine that is as effective as the polio or smallpox vaccine, a vaccine capable of eradication. Currently, that may not be an option due to how the disease mutates, but we should still talk about it, and discuss why we are not at least attempting to come up with a vaccine that is the flu vaccine (which may include 50 weakened or dead variants). Acting like the current vaccine options operate mechanistically like the old, very effective vaccines is misleading, and I think part of what is driving a lot of the consternation.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#955

Post by tekknik » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #915

015a wrote: post #886

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Sure they are; federal, state, and private entities are absolutely running active experiments on the broad safety and efficacy of these vaccines against new variants. That makes them "experimental". We've got enough data to reasonably assert that they're safe. That doesn't mean they aren't experimental. Its like saying gravity is a theory. It sure is. That doesn't mean my phone won't break when I drop it.

sigh. In which case all medicine is experimental, because it's all being studied all the time.

most of which the companies have not been shielded against, like in this case, and again most of which was not developed in a rushed fashion to address an immediate need.

have you forgotten about the people having heart issues after receiving the shot?

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#956

Post by tekknik » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

mikeyjk wrote: post #835

tekknik wrote: post #828

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Yay, more injections of experimental vaccines!

What level of testing would make these vaccines non experimental in your mind, and what other vaccine do you know that has had that level of rigour applied? I'm genuinely curious

about 3 years of no issues.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#957

Post by ashildr » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #775

SECProto wrote: post #740

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> We also have 80 years of experience with the flu vaccine opposed to 8 months 8 months is incorrect. Here's[1] an article from 17 months ago about results from Moderna's covid-19 trials for vaccinations dating back to mar16 2020. So it's been 21 months, not 8 (and that's ignoring trials of mRNA vaccines years earlier as they weren't for this specific virus) [1] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/hop…

We can split hairs on what constitutes experience, or when it starts. but the point still stands: We have a lot more experience with the flu vaccine. This is the answer for why not all annual flu vaccines need clinical trials.

„the flu vaccine“?

Which one?

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#958

Post by azekai » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

bagels wrote: post #129

azekai wrote: post #75

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>Probably naive to think we could totally eradicate it within a couple of years, particularly as far as vaccine fearmongering is concerned. Would be nice to see it join Smallpox and Polio though. We would have to completely redesign our current method of vaccination, then. We do not have a sterilizing vaccine for COVID (like we did for smallpox and polio). The current vaccines all use spike proteins to prepare a body…

Is it possible for one to be developed?

I think that is what we need to figure out. I think our current method of vaccination was a clever hack, designed to do something in the early days of the pandemic. I think there were good reasons for this, too: a traditional vaccine aimed at early COVID would not have been very effective, as once we were alerted to the real danger, the cat was already out of the bag, and new variants were only a matter of time, but likely could not be reliably predicted.

However, more than a year later, I think now we should not only catalogue the arising variants, but we should also make a serious attempt to move away from spike-protein based vaccines in favor of traditional, weakened virus vaccines.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#959

Post by croes » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

anonfornoreason wrote: post #429

akamaka wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Africa’s excess deaths amount to 1 out of every 200 people. The most vulnerable have already been removed from the sample set. I’m going to wait for severity data from where I live, because that’s what matters.

every year more vulnerable people are added to that set as population ages, gets fatter, has more advanced coronary or metabolic disease, etc. not trying to contradict here I think it will be less each year. maybe governments will even start telling people their dirt and exercise choices are exacerbating this disease!

After the pandemic the mortality could be lower for some years because some timed sooner because of COVID. At the same time the "normal" deaths from operations will be added when the postponed operations are rescheduled.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#960

Post by vkou » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

landemva wrote: post #832

vkou wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't even get started on how our response completely decimated the working class Odd that you say this, when every blue collar place around me is having trouble hiring staff. Between stimulus checks, rising wages, and becoming way pickier about which jobs they are taking, this is the sort of thing that I would expect the working class to do when they are doing better for themselves. You know what actually decimate…

'You know what actually decimates the working class?' Is that theory or do you work a blue collar job? I was in a work truck as 'critical infrastructure' and lived it. The company owners got richer AT HOME while we kept working. And then some layoffs after the pandemic forgivable loan calendar window expired. I caught the 'rona earlier this year. I have a Dr. letter saying so. Now white collar woke-from-home wants me…

My friends work blue collar jobs. One loves the mask mandates.

Do you know why?

Because people he meets can no longer see what happens to your teeth when you can't afford a dentist. [1] [2]

Another took full advantage of stimulus and unemployment payments, because with her comorbidities, and lack of health insurance, she didn't want to get seriously sick, or die at her shitty McDonalds job.

The person you're spiting the most by not getting vaccinated is yourself, followed closely by your relatives and coworkers, followed by the rest of your community.

Most of my extended family caught the 'rona' last year, and had beautiful doctor's notes attesting to this fact. Those notes did not stop all of them from catch it again this year. My grandfather (who missed out on getting sick the first time around) nearly died from it, and my grandmother was not in a good way. So much for acquired immunity. If they weren't all vaccinated, it's likely I wouldn't have a grandfather today.

[1] I believe that the technical term for this is 'meth-mouth', but you don't actually have to take any meth, cocaine, or heroin for your teeth to end up looking like that.

[2] And also the obvious reason that he doesn't want sick people to breathe on him.