Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study
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Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study
#732Earlier quoted context omitted.
The lockdown prevents severe mutations from replicating because of lockdowns. Milder mutations don't result in lockdowns hence ...
Or do lockdowns just prolong the inevitable?
But prolonging the inevitable is still useful, in that it slows down the number of hospitalizations on your march towards the inevitable.
Most hospital systems in the USA are stressed to severe levels. We had a nursing shortage before COVID19 even began, and the increased workload from COVID19 is clearly causing problems.
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Slowing things down gives more time for the old patients to leave the hospital, meaning doctors/nurses won't have to work as hard.
Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study
#733Earlier quoted context omitted.
According to reports, the original BioNTech vaccine was developed in a matter of hours: https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-desi... Moderna's was done in two days.
Which makes me wonder why it takes so long this time?
If possible, basic efficacy testing is done on non-human models, either in vitro or animal models. For species-specific viruses, this is difficult and may be impossible. I'm not sure what if any such testing was done with the SARS-COV-2 vaccine candidates.
A basic safety test with dosages thought to be low enough not to present any risks. The goal here is simply to see what if any side effects occur. Any comorbidities, no matter how unrelated, are reported. Note that these may occur in a control / nontreated population, so the key isn't "individual was treated, had condition", but "there is a statistically robust difference in rates of co-morbidities between treatment and control populations" In normal circumstances, such safety testing may take a year or more, and data reporting are ongoing through drug development and use.
Efficacy is determined, where groups treated are assessed for whether or not the drug provides any measureable effect. Note that this can range anywhere from "provides 100% immunity from infection" to "cancer patient dies a horrible painful death 2 weeks after control group". (If you're familiar with cancer research, it is rife with very marginal "positive responses" to therapy. Yes, with some spectacularly better instances.)
Finally, dosing is dialed in to find out how much and how often to deliver the drug. That's how we're ending up with single vs. double innoculation recommendations, and/or boosters, and wait times between dosing. Again, multiple groups followed over time.
All of this takes time. Since COVID-19 has a course of about 1--2 months from exposure to resolution (you get better or you die), and vaccinations have a lead time of about 2 weeks after second dose to full efficacy, that's about four momths just to get baseline measurements.
A typical drug study might have as few as 30--60 patients, though many have more. In the case of the SARS-COV-2 vaccines, trials were much larger as I understand (I don't have data or reports in front of me, so don't take my comments here as significant.)
If there's earlier research to build off of (e.g., mRNA base models of solutions and methods) then some of this process can be based on earlier research, which helps.
But you're still looking at 6--9 months before a vaccine can be recommended with strong assurances even under highly expedited conditions. Given circumstances, health authorities might be willing to operate more quickly and with less data, but those decisions would have to be considered preliminary and subject to revision. Revised understanding around COVID-19 has been highly problematic around the world, leading to trust issues and opportunists spreading disinformation.
And once you have a candidate treatment, you've still got to produce and supply that, with manufacturing and logistics considerations, all of which were evident in the rollout of existing SARS-COV-2 vaccines (e.g., production issues, patent licensing, quality control, storage and refrigeration, cold-chain management, patient contact, scheduling, and follow-up, etc.).
It's complicated.
Source: Some ancillary PHARMA related work in the past, eccelctic interests.
Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study
#734Omicron doesn't change fundamentally where we were with Delta. Its infection enough that everyone will get it. Vaccines protect you (they are banned for kids under 5). Pfizer's treatment (Paxlovid) is a very effective cure (currently banned). The death rate for vaccinated individuals is extremely low, at its current rate its about 26 per 100,000. The flu killed 24 per 100,000 in california. We are at the endgame. The…
It’s not “banned” it’s just not approved yet. The US is making plans to buy tons of it in advance. Banned has a very specific connotation that is wildly out of place.
I think that it subtly masks the responsibility of our bureaucratic system. It is literally killing people by preventing them from having access to a potentially effective treatment (that would be accessible if not for this legislation / bureaucratic burden).
Due to this I think that “banned for now” is more appropriate. It highlights the fact that our legislative framework bans medicine by default (it could allow them by default in another world, and then selectively ban medicines that prove dangerous / ineffective).
Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study
#735Earlier quoted context omitted.
The lockdown prevents severe mutations from replicating because of lockdowns. Milder mutations don't result in lockdowns hence ...
It's true on an individual level too: someone who is very sick will stay at home, but someone with a mild head cold will still go out. There's going to be a negative correlation between severity and something like "velocity" of infected persons.
If a virus that would make make you very sick is contracted by someone who's vaccinated - They will now be in the 2nd category you describe ~'Sick, but not sick enough to stop them going out' -- They're now giving mobility to that virus that it would have otherwise not had (If they weren't vaccinated and were feeling too sick to go out and about)
So by usage of vaccines that only prevent severe symptoms, we pervert that normal negative feedback loop of virus spread and instead set the parameters to be more likely to propagate severe virus' that would usually keep you sick at home.
Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study
#736Earlier quoted context omitted.
They could have ended the wildtype pandemic. As soon as delta appeared it was impossible. They have 90% efficiency at best and you need 84% of all people protected to stop delta (1-1/R0 for R0=6). It's impossible to get such high vax rate.
It was kinda-possible to return to normality with delta though. The entire EU is above 70% of the total population, with some countries above 80%. And of the unvaccinated, most are children who are less susceptible in the first place. But with Omicron, it's literally like we're back to March 2020. Norway (with 81% vaccination rate) went from normality to full lockdown in the past two weeks. I'm pretty sure that's com…
People scared about hospital capacity should be asking strong questions to their politicians about why they squandered 2 years of peoples short life with zero new capacity.
The public shouldn’t shoulder the failures of politicians nor these “experts”.
Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study
#737I would imagine that a virus would eventually adapt/evolve to a point to where it co-exists harmoniously with the host organism. I've heard somewhere that herpes simplex virus used to have terrible symptoms, like genital blisters, but over the years the most common variant has no symptoms, and most people have no idea they have it.... and a huge proportion of human have it. I would imagine all viral contagions would…
The selection pressure that can select for weaker viral variants is the rapid and widespread deaths of viral hosts. The stronger viral variants literally die off in the hosts they kill, and can't keep spreading, whereas the viral variants that didn't kill their hosts before spreading their genes can keep replicating.
The majority of people with COVID do not die before spreading it to other people. That selection pressure isn't there for COVID, therefore there is nothing really stopping it from mutating into stronger variants. If it starts killing people like Ebola does, then the selection pressure for weaker variants might exist because a lot of hosts will die. Even in that case, it isn't a given that a highly fatal virus would mutate to become weaker. It could very well wipe out entire species and die off itself like the majority of species in the history of the Earth, or it could become endemic in a different species afterwards and live on.
All of this selection happens over evolutionary timelines, which span over many human lifetimes. If the virus becomes weaker, it could take many human lifetimes to reach that point.
From the AP's "Viruses can evolve to be more deadly" article[1]:
> “Becoming more transmissible and less lethal are absolutely what’s best for the pathogen,” said Day. “But the problem is that it’s not always possible, and in many instances is never possible, to be more transmissible and also less lethal.”
> Day said there are documented cases of animal viruses that evolved over time to become more lethal, including myxoma virus in rabbits and Marek’s disease in chicken.
> Some viruses provoke severe symptoms in their hosts that make it easier to transmit the virus to others. But those same symptoms can wind up killing the hosts.
> Adalja said one example is Ebola, a deadly virus that spreads through the blood and body fluids of infected people. Another example is norovirus, which causes diarrhea and vomiting, and leads to hundreds of deaths each year in the U.S.
> “The virus, speaking anthropomorphically, just wants to spread and have its genes replicated,” said Adalja. “If the best way for it is to spread by causing severe symptoms it will continue to do that.”
Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study
#738Omicron doesn't change fundamentally where we were with Delta. Its infection enough that everyone will get it. Vaccines protect you (they are banned for kids under 5). Pfizer's treatment (Paxlovid) is a very effective cure (currently banned). The death rate for vaccinated individuals is extremely low, at its current rate its about 26 per 100,000. The flu killed 24 per 100,000 in california. We are at the endgame. The…
"Ensure people have reasonable rights to keep wearing masks or something in public. " When was that ever forbidden, except on demonstrations?
Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study
#739I would imagine that a virus would eventually adapt/evolve to a point to where it co-exists harmoniously with the host organism. I've heard somewhere that herpes simplex virus used to have terrible symptoms, like genital blisters, but over the years the most common variant has no symptoms, and most people have no idea they have it.... and a huge proportion of human have it. I would imagine all viral contagions would…
There is no intelligence making this decisions, its just some random mutations, so we cannot predict what path the virus will take.
Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study
#740Earlier quoted context omitted.
We don’t do clinical trials for the yearly flu vaccine update, do we?
We also have 80 years of experience with the flu vaccine opposed to 8 months
8 months is incorrect. Here's[1] an article from 17 months ago about results from Moderna's covid-19 trials for vaccinations dating back to mar16 2020. So it's been 21 months, not 8 (and that's ignoring trials of mRNA vaccines years earlier as they weren't for this specific virus)
[1] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/hopeful-...