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Americans are rethinking where they want to live

economist.com

621–630 of 645 posts

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#621

Visit Texas or Florida first. I've lived in Texas and visited Florida many times. I've also visited San Jose. TX and FL are hell compared to CA. I don't care for CA either, but that's because of cultural (coastal) differences. The NorthEast is heaven on Earth.

Can you elaborate why you like the Northeast? I'm thinking of spending a few years in Boston.

Where are you moving from? I just moved to greater boston and I love it.

Where I live has just the right level of density -- you see people around at all times of day, but it's still peaceful at night. And almost everything I do is walkable.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#622

I sure am. I live in San Jose (which resides in the Bay Area). Here’s why I am leaving. - $2,700 per month for a 500 sq/ft apartment. - Homeless people everywhere the moment I step foot out of my apartment. - Smells like urine on many sidewalks. - Literally half of the buildings are vacant or abandoned (in downtown). - Human feces on sidewalks and entrance to buildings. - Political and ideological homogeny. Keep your…

The two states mentioned are near the bottom of my list but I think your nod to ideological homogeny notes that you are on board. I personally find the policy decisions (and elected leadership) of both to be third world, backward, and dangerous if not outright fraudulent and refuse to entertain offers that would put me there or working for companies there.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#623
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't have to move that far to escape all that. Plenty of areas an hour away from San Jose that are nice and a lot cheaper (still more expensive than Texas or Florida, sure).

But if I'm moving an hour away, why not move farther? I was born, raised and have lived 31 out of 34 years in California and I just can't fathom why anyone would choose to live here anymore. I bought a house in Southern Oregon 4 years ago and moved up here full time a year ago thanks to the pandemic. I really hope I never have to move back.

Southern Oregon is a far cry from Texas and Florida as the top comment mentions. I don't see how either of those states would factor in especially for my partner who champions women's and LGBTQ+ rights...

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#624
post #32

This article and similar ones have been written at least a 1000 times for the last decade with a clear political tinge. The poster child is always around how people want to move to Florida and Texas. But somehow it forgets to include Washington and Seattle which has probably seen the biggest tech migration and grown into the second biggest tech hub in the country, far greater than Austin or Miami (hyped up constantly…

People move to Seattle mostly because it is great. But if you are a certain political bent Texas and Florida offer a safe haven to be so. I have a (gladly) ex-worker that is on his way to FL or Montana but all that does is add 2 seemingly nice folks to the pile of racists already there.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#625
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an European with extensive knowledge about government budgeting and costs, I find the naivety of most people regarding European healthcare systems incredible. There is not enough money in the world to deliver the promise of the European hc systems and there is no serious reporting on the results to make people aware of the gap. Most people believe healthcare is readily available, free and unlimited, none of these…

Spaniard here. If the most powerful country in the world can't manage that at federal level, then the US is broken from its roots.

USA is first and foremost a federation of relatively free countries, most legislation is at state level and it works in a way like EU with an integrated military. The major difference is they used to have freedom to choose healthcare, it is not forced like in EU (ex: in my country 10% of your income is paid as healthcare tax and you can be treated in state owned hospitals when there is a place available; note there is no obligation for the state to give you any care, but you go to prison if you don't pay up).

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there was no employment to be had Employment is a policy failure. Likely "not well thought out" if it didn't work as intended :) California and its policies have created an ton of jobs. So many jobs that theres not enough space to put the people who work those jobs. Much of Silicon Valley in the 50s was farmland. Why hasn't every other rural town transformed into the economic powerhouse of the 21st century? Could i…

Employment is a policy failure on a much larger scale than that of the small towns which lost the factories which moved overseas - whether that be in the USA or in Europe, doesn't matter. Do you think those small towns could have kept the rust belt alive if only they had some of those ex-Californians around to teach them those "well thought out and humane" policies? Would Appalachia have been a thriving centre of dev…

> Do you think those small towns could have kept the rust belt alive if only they had some of those ex-Californians around to teach them those "well thought out and humane" policies? Would Appalachia have been a thriving centre of development had only the majors of Bumfuck and Podunk gotten their acts together?

Yes.

Obviously its a little glib to be an arm-chair critic and just handwave all externatilities and decisions away, but yes i think the rust belt was (partially) a policy failure. eg. Cleveland was once one of the richest cities in america, but did nothing to protect or incubate the next generation of businesses there. I used to live near Cleveland's millionaire row. The mansions are now homeless shelters and frat houses, and the rich are gone. A strong policy for employment is to push diversity of the work - lots of different industries, and new ventures so economic cycles don't affect the whole region. Today, that same strip of road is being re-imagined as the "Health-Tech Corridor", is being outfit with a massive fiber line, and encouraging peering between institutions to share medical data for research purposes. I think this is a step in the right direction: instead of waiting for stardard oil to move back, invent your own future. They say a nearby hospital and university collab on medical research, and the gov paid for infra to attract lots of new orgs to the area (its working so far at attracting orgs). Who knows if it'll revitalize the area in 20 years, but it was pretty cheap and paid for by grants, so why not?

California proved for years (but maybe flew too close to the sun recently) that you could charge high taxes and high regulation and people would still go, and still start businesses, if you made it worth it. How many "Bumfuck and Podunk"'s are raising taxes to generate more revenue for the locality to offer more for their citizens?

Protect workers (humane) and give them affordances to start new ventures (good policy). Bring in (and welcome!) outsiders (humane+policy) who will offer new perspectives and start new businesses, and bring new needs to be met with economic growth.

Speaking of outsiders, this whole conversation could be avoided if these podunk places (or those that speak on their behalf?) weren't fearful of outsiders coming in and doing things differently. Be open to outsiders! Be open to change! Just because outsiders are different and not like you doesn't mean they're bad, or wrong, or will make your life worse. Maybe what "podunk" needs the most is some west coast open-mindedness.

> The policies which gave California those jobs you mentioned are not the policies enacted by the current crop of Californian politicos.

What is the difference between then and now? Genuine question besides obviously politicians come/go and get different string of names on a ballot.

> Power failures, skyrocketing crime, rampant homelessness,

to be clear, power failure isn't texas-style "our grid is poorly managed" power failure, they turn it off to avoid starting fires at key moments. Still means you don't have electricity, of course, so something needs to be done - and they're actively trying to fix it.

The homelessness is a huge policy failure of CA. I agree. NY/MA handle it way better on a policy level (which is more humane too).

> tell me something which they're doing right...

They have great worker protections. Eg. they don't honor non-competes, a huge requirement for entrepreneurial activity.

They are one of a few states to enact privacy laws. This is great for forcing companies to respect users, instead of the state respecting businesses.

They are one of a handful states that offer strong LGBT protections in the workplace. A very "humane" law thats missing from most "bumfuck" areas.

They have/had strong gun controls and protections.

The legalization of cannabis was huge for reducing "crime" and giving people more freedom.

Their push for EV and renewable power on the grid is one of the strongest in the country. Driving an EV in cali is easy because of all the chargers, and so many other cars are EV that it creates positive feedback loop.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in the country, used to live in the suburbs, and currently live in Chicago. Yes, we could afford to have a lot more space that we personally own if we lived in a less dense area. But no, I don't miss it. I don't feel cooped up in a small space where I live right now. Nor did I feel cooped up living in a college dormitory, for that matter. I do feel cooped up in a small space when I'm staying with friends an…

Sure a small backyard isn't great... But I live in a major city and instead we just walk to the enormous park, which is way bigger than any backyard. It's a very different mindset that I thought I'd hate but now that I'm here I couldn't imagine it any other way.

> Sure a small backyard isn't great... But I live in a major city and instead we just walk to the enormous park, which is way bigger than any backyard.

In the suburbs you typically have both. We have a yard to play in (not huge, but a good yard with a few trees to climb, a treehouse, etc) and we have a large park about 1 minute away on foot. It's not only the major cities that have parks.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#628
post #124

I sure am. I live in San Jose (which resides in the Bay Area). Here’s why I am leaving. - $2,700 per month for a 500 sq/ft apartment. - Homeless people everywhere the moment I step foot out of my apartment. - Smells like urine on many sidewalks. - Literally half of the buildings are vacant or abandoned (in downtown). - Human feces on sidewalks and entrance to buildings. - Political and ideological homogeny. Keep your…

you don't have to move that far to escape all that. Plenty of areas an hour away from San Jose that are nice and a lot cheaper (still more expensive than Texas or Florida, sure).

No need to drive even an hour. Downtown San Jose is certainly a hellhole (I worked downtown on Santa Clara St. for a while) but just a few minutes away there are very nice suburbs like Campbell, Willow Glen etc.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#629
post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I currently live in Providence, RI (by way of NYC). We highly value walkability, but feel like we've aged out of tolerating some other big-city "annoyances." When Americans think of "suburbs" they think of culs-de-sac and arterials, but it doesn't have to be that way. New England is dotted with "small towns" that are basically just suburbs of Providence and/or Boston that are laid out on a grid -- with a…

I'm not sure how universal this is, though. A friend of mine lives in Holliston, MA (a small town that's about a 45 minute drive from Boston), but still drives most places locally, even just to go to downtown, park, and walk from there. The problem isn't the distance, it's that the roads were not designed with pedestrians in mind. The route from their house to downtown has mostly no sidewalks, and roads with enough t…

There's a lot of that in New England, too.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#630
post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoy watching a couple of shows about home renovations that take place in the US (some twin brothers and love or list it, or something like that). Two things always strike me as odd as an European: * People on that show always needs a shit load of space. Especially in the kitchens, for some reason. Sometimes they are a couple without kids or maybe have one kid but they want 2 ovens? And a huge island is a must. Mo…

Do Europeans not cook all that much? I imagine most suburban US families cook most of their meals, both for cost reasons and because taking children to a restaurant is viewed as a chore here. Even without kids, my partner and I try to cook often. We have a decent-sized kitchen by urban US standards (it would probably be considered on the small side if we lived in the suburbs), but could still stand to have more count…

I personally don’t cook but luckily for me my girlfriend loves it, and even though we have a decent kitchen now that we bought a place, she seemed to do fine in smaller kitchens. And I’ve never met anyone with 2 ovens.

And even though kitchens are way smaller than in the US (or at least the average one in those shows), another difference is that we have the washer in the kitchen (almost no one has a drier though, and after using one in London I wonder why anyone would use one for anything other than sheets and towels, those things destroy clothes) and usually the kitchen was a separate room (due to the smell, I guess?), but nowadays an “open plan” has grown a lot in demand.

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