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Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#581

Post by johnchristopher »

hpoe wrote: post #530
oceanplexian wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, vaccines were never advertised as tools to prevent infection. The story has always been that it reduces symptoms and hospitalization, so there are plenty of opportunities for the disease to get “tickets” in the evolution lottery. Between that, the animal reservoirs (COVID can spread to different species), and the millions of people in undeveloped countries who will never get a vax, COVID was guaranteed…

I've heard that but then why do people say we need to get vaccinated to protect the most vulnerable members of society if the vaccine isn't actually slowing the spread and doesn't prevent infection? EDIT: To be clear I already had COVID and didn't have any serious symptoms so the argument about a hospital bed doesn't necessarily apply to me. Beyond that I actually got vaccinated, my question centers around the dispar…

> I've heard that but then why do people say we need to get vaccinated to protect the most vulnerable members of society if the vaccine isn't actually slowing the spread and doesn't prevent infection?

Why are you (and others) thinking that since vaccines aren't 100% effective it doesn't help protecting other people ?

What kind of dissonance cognitive gets you there ?

Why are you blind to the fact that a vaccine that mostly works still help reducing infections and why do you equate that to "vaccines don't work to protect others (since some vaccinated people can still infect others) so I shouldn't get vaccinated" ?

How come you are working from a yes/no, full-or-nothing angle ?

A glass of water won't 100% quench your thirst when you haven't drunk in a long time so you won't take it ?

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#582

Post by maxerickson »

hpoe wrote: post #530
oceanplexian wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, vaccines were never advertised as tools to prevent infection. The story has always been that it reduces symptoms and hospitalization, so there are plenty of opportunities for the disease to get “tickets” in the evolution lottery. Between that, the animal reservoirs (COVID can spread to different species), and the millions of people in undeveloped countries who will never get a vax, COVID was guaranteed…

I've heard that but then why do people say we need to get vaccinated to protect the most vulnerable members of society if the vaccine isn't actually slowing the spread and doesn't prevent infection? EDIT: To be clear I already had COVID and didn't have any serious symptoms so the argument about a hospital bed doesn't necessarily apply to me. Beyond that I actually got vaccinated, my question centers around the dispar…

The vaccines do prevent infections and slow the spread. They just don't prevent all infections.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#583

Post by aqme28 »

renaudg wrote: post #370
roody15 wrote: post #175

This is honesty good news. The best case scenario is a new less deadly highly contagious strain that become the most dominant and spreads worldwide. Way too many comments and articles that try and keep the fear train running full steam. A mild strain of covid that is contagious, leads to natural immunity and doesn’t require a vaccine is an absolute win win for the world.

> The best case scenario is a new less deadly highly contagious strain that become the most dominant and spreads worldwide. No, this scenario wouldn't be good news at all. Firstly, a marginally lower case fatality rate is a linear improvement, whereas much higher transmissibility is an exponential worsening. In other words, the reduced risk of an infected person getting into hospital is dwarfed by the exponential inc…

Or more simply, 5x as contagious but 1/2 as deadly? That's still a lot more deaths.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#584

Post by chiefalchemist »

oceanplexian wrote: post #468
renaudg wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The best case scenario is a new less deadly highly contagious strain that become the most dominant and spreads worldwide. No, this scenario wouldn't be good news at all. Firstly, a marginally lower case fatality rate is a linear improvement, whereas much higher transmissibility is an exponential worsening. In other words, the reduced risk of an infected person getting into hospital is dwarfed by the exponential inc…

The thing is, vaccines were never advertised as tools to prevent infection. The story has always been that it reduces symptoms and hospitalization, so there are plenty of opportunities for the disease to get “tickets” in the evolution lottery. Between that, the animal reservoirs (COVID can spread to different species), and the millions of people in undeveloped countries who will never get a vax, COVID was guaranteed…

> The thing is, vaccines were never advertised as tools to prevent infection.

In the USA? Yes, they were. There was no mention of a future need for boosters. There was a simple promise of safety, and for things to return to normal.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#585

Post by maxerickson »

hpoe wrote: post #555
sjg007 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called being a decent human being and also the vaccine protects you as well.

Well I got COVID before the vaccine came out and am not in a high risk group, so I'm not really that worried about me. But you say it is being a decent human being, but I am confused if we both agree the vaccine doesn't reduce infectivity then why would me getting it change anything for anyone else, since we know it doesn't protect others?

A vaccine is likely to enhance your immunity and make you less likely to become ill and infect others. It's not guaranteed to do that, but that's different than not doing it at all.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#586

Post by sjg007 »

spookthesunset wrote: post #557
sjg007 wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The medical and scientific consensus is that vaccines alone are not enough.

Could you imagine a company where lawyers had complete control over product development and the entire company designed their goods around whatever the lawyers said? Every square inch of the product would be covered in legal disclaimers, everything would have foam padding on the corners, and the box it came in would have you sign a 40 page document before you could even open it. I have no clue how the actual product…

If COVID is here to stay, we still need mitigation strategies and for people to follow them.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#587

Post by imbnwa »

johnchristopher wrote: post #476
roody15 wrote: post #175

This is honesty good news. The best case scenario is a new less deadly highly contagious strain that become the most dominant and spreads worldwide. Way too many comments and articles that try and keep the fear train running full steam. A mild strain of covid that is contagious, leads to natural immunity and doesn’t require a vaccine is an absolute win win for the world.

> A mild strain of covid that is contagious, leads to natural immunity and doesn’t require a vaccine is an absolute win win for the world. No. Covid reeinfects. There's only a short-lived immunity. Covid is not a cold. If it doesn't get your the first or the second or the third time it will get you the 15th time. Long term damage is not getting enough attention. In decades maybe we get a mild covid. > Way too many co…

> Long term damage is not getting enough attention.

Too bad all those back-to-office-adamant employers completely ignore this. Like, OK, I get infected cause I had to commute to work and then you fire me/lay me off and I'm left holding the bag, financially and physically cause you really wanted to make your leasing payments "worth it".

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#588

Post by johnchristopher »

jat850 wrote: post #570
hpoe wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I got COVID before the vaccine came out and am not in a high risk group, so I'm not really that worried about me. But you say it is being a decent human being, but I am confused if we both agree the vaccine doesn't reduce infectivity then why would me getting it change anything for anyone else, since we know it doesn't protect others?

It amazes me that there remains this misguided view that vaccination efficacy around protecting others is a binary mechanism. It's not. There is evidence of at least partial reduction in infection, not just outcome, by being vaccinated. That's not including the nuanced aspect of it where being vaccinated reduces the severity and duration of symptomatic cases, which by nature reduces the likelihood simply based on tim…

> It amazes me that there remains this misguided view that vaccination efficacy around protecting others is a binary mechanism. It's not. There is evidence of at least partial reduction in infection, not just outcome, by being vaccinated.

I do not understand if this argument is made in good faith or if it's covid deniers stirring shit up in the public debate or just rationalizing their fear of the syringe (yes, I know of 2 anti-vax who admitted it was their original reasons to refuse the vaccine).

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#589

Post by jack_pp »

jat850 wrote: post #570
hpoe wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I got COVID before the vaccine came out and am not in a high risk group, so I'm not really that worried about me. But you say it is being a decent human being, but I am confused if we both agree the vaccine doesn't reduce infectivity then why would me getting it change anything for anyone else, since we know it doesn't protect others?

It amazes me that there remains this misguided view that vaccination efficacy around protecting others is a binary mechanism. It's not. There is evidence of at least partial reduction in infection, not just outcome, by being vaccinated. That's not including the nuanced aspect of it where being vaccinated reduces the severity and duration of symptomatic cases, which by nature reduces the likelihood simply based on tim…

Parent said he has natural immunity, can you cite any evidence that you can get covid twice? If not then people who can prove natural immunity don't need the vaccine and are just risking their health for nothing.

Re: Omicron variant more resistant to vaccine but causes less severe Covid: study

#590

Post by drited »

renaudg wrote: post #370
roody15 wrote: post #175

This is honesty good news. The best case scenario is a new less deadly highly contagious strain that become the most dominant and spreads worldwide. Way too many comments and articles that try and keep the fear train running full steam. A mild strain of covid that is contagious, leads to natural immunity and doesn’t require a vaccine is an absolute win win for the world.

> The best case scenario is a new less deadly highly contagious strain that become the most dominant and spreads worldwide. No, this scenario wouldn't be good news at all. Firstly, a marginally lower case fatality rate is a linear improvement, whereas much higher transmissibility is an exponential worsening. In other words, the reduced risk of an infected person getting into hospital is dwarfed by the exponential inc…

>marginally lower case fatality rate

The op didn't state marginally could you please share where you are getting this from?

The first publicly confirmed death globally from Omicron was reported just yesterday (source: https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-says-omicron-spread...

Given that the South African study discussed in this Washington Post article included 78k people, none of whom died if the above Reuters article is correct, doesn't this suggest that the case fatality rate is a lot lower (not marginally lower)?

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