Earlier quoted context omitted.
Greenhouse (specifically carbon dioxide) specifically might be solved, because trees exist and are pretty good at what they do, but I absolutely do not believe that a 95% reduction in population would lead to a consistently-healthy world. I think you dramatically underestimate our ability to pollute in small populations. Consider how bad air pollution was in London during the 1700s and 1800s.
But in the 1700s and 1800s you could leave London and go to the countryside and have very little pollution. That would be wonderful today. Instead we are filling and polluting every space in the world.
Bird populations declining fast across North America
261–270 of 322 posts
Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
> _My_ world view deems no person "excess". So we don't have "too many" people? The world is not OVERpopulated? Because excess means "too many" or "more than needed," so if you're saying there's no excess, then you're saying there's not too many people. I definitely agree with you, by the way: the world does not have an excess of humans!
We have many more people on earth than can sustainably be supported without continuing environmental damage and depletion.
Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
They probably get upset as they assume you are implying some moral judgment against having kids. Most people want kids, just like those before us for untold hundreds of thousands of years.
No I don't think it's that either: for example many seem to get especially upset when I suggest that most developed countries have naturally slightly declining populations so they should more or less be left alone rather than implement policies to drive population growth.
Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
Antinatalism is a thing, yes. You're not alone and it doesn't matter if something is popular. Apart from the adoption rate (no pun intended)
Please be aware there is also the "The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement". https://www.vhemt.org/ It is led by Les Knight. Here is quick explanation, from their site: ''' VHEMT (pronounced vehement) is a movement not an organization. It’s a movement advanced by people who care about life on planet Earth. We’re not just a bunch of misanthropes and anti-social, Malthusian misfits, taking morbid delight whenever disas…
Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America
#265The blame is on reflective windows?
>(A 2014 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and Smithsonian study found that between 365 million and one billion birds die each year across the U.S. as a result of window strikes.)
That seems unreal. So I want to read said study.
https://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/pdf/management/lossetal20...
Oh wait... its cars hitting birds? Why did they seem to exclude this important detail? And the study clearly puts it that around 339 million is max? So the billion birds number is made up?
This article also seems to dance around the actual problem?
https://abcbirds.org/blog21/wind-turbine-mortality/
http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2018/ph240/scherr1/
The massive increase in windmills is the source of death. Every single typical windmill will kill dozens of bird and bats every year.
The gymnastics that OP is doing is to cover up the mass death by windmills.
Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America
#266Until human society stops serving abstractions (like money) over things that are real, then real things will continually face consequence. These will still over into our lives in a multitude of ways until we no longer have real systems to support these abstractions. Loss of natural life is such a failure. Today we speak of stock markets, governments, businesses. Someday, our main concern will not be these shared drea…
Unfortunately so. As far as I am aware, there are no political movements in any Western country focused entirely on reality and the consequences of reality. We have become enamored, as a society, with abstract ideas and are sacrificing reality on an altar to our delusions.
Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
…it’s a 50 year trend
Pollution, windows, and cats appeared in 1971? 1975 is when the first commercial wind farm went up, maybe you got something :p If it was all pollution we'd see improvements as we decrease emissions. (we have been since 2005)
An even bigger cause of decline is birds that are never born due to habitat loss and pesticide use that fundamentally disrupts their food chain because no insects = no birds.
Windmill bird mortality is some extreme, irrelevant outlier that does not matter at all. It's a manufactured issue that follows a formula discussed by Albert Hirschman in his 1991, "The rhetoric of reaction". Specifically it uses the framework of the perversity thesis: “any purposive action to improve some feature of the political, social, or economic order only serves to exacerbate the condition one wishes to remedy.”
This is used as a scripted template to smuggle agendas through "think tanks" (which is a polite term for "propaganda factories") and then onto some theatrical "they aren't telling you this on mainstream media" sphere where they are peddled as "talking points" and "facts".
In this case, as in most, they load it up with common logical and rhetorical fallacies. The go-to here is to represent the extreme statistically insignificant outlier as if it's the normal and then advocate for policy focusing around the outlier.
It's not about the outlier, in this case birds. Instead, it's about whoever paid the think-tanks to use the classic Hirschman tools and push the narrative through the channels. Most of the think tanks are funded by oil and gas so ...
If we focus on the other 99.99% of the deaths and the other 100% of the non-death declines then the problems will actually be addressed instead of say, firing up coal fire power plants, drilling for oil, decommissioning wind farms and having it have zero effect on the downward trend.
It might be hard to figure out why publicly traded oil and gas companies would feel fiscally obligated to invest in campaigns to increase their market share, but I'm sure we can connect the dots.
Unless you honestly think they are abandoning their fiduciary duty, are squandering company money because they're all a bunch of rabid birders, and just happened to read the numbers wrong. I mean sure, ok.
Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America
#268>Readers can also help protect birds by taking a few simple actions. An easy one is to install window screens or eliminate window reflections with film or paint. The blame is on reflective windows? >(A 2014 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and Smithsonian study found that between 365 million and one billion birds die each year across the U.S. as a result of window strikes.) That seems unreal. So I want to read said stu…
Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
This illustrates why it's a terrible shame that the overpopulation topic has effectively been silenced and demonized in science conservationism and environmentalism. I frequently get people becoming wildly irrational and upset at me when I suggest that the current population is not supported by the earth sustainably, let alone a much larger one. They'll angrily insist that the earth's "carrying capacity" is 20, 50, 1…
> and upset at me when I suggest that the current population is not supported by the earth sustainably, because you are wrong. 100 years ago people said we would all starve when the world population reaches 1 billion people. then we not only not starved but became wealthier as well. Doom predictions are mostly damn wrong.
And I'm not making any predictions, just observations. This might come down to semantics on what exactly you suppose sustainable to mean or whether or not it is desirable, but causing an ongoing mass extinction event does not meet my definition of sustainable.
I'm talking about environmental sustainability to be clear (hopefully it was from the context but I may not have been explicit enough). I don't doubt we could physically feed billions more people at least as long as we have cheap energy and fertilizers from fossil fuels if we accepted ever increasing environmental destruction.
Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
We have many more people on earth than can sustainably be supported without continuing environmental damage and depletion.
Nope. That is catastrophism.