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Opt Out of Cynicism

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Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#121

Post by hutzlibu »

rewq4321 wrote: post #95
Barrin92 wrote: post #68

I'm pretty sure I fall into the definition of a cynic given in the piece "according to cynics, the world operates in a certain way, the elites are always the same, and will always be the same. The cynics think we are always playing the same game that has always been played. For example, a cynic may think that media’s only purpose is to sells your attention to advertisers - like I did here. And often they might be rig…

I think there's a general failure of communication here, and throughout the current social discourse on "cynicism". There's a sort of false trichotomy at play in this post, and on Twitter I've noticed a dichotomous version: "Should we be happy that we're improving, or sad that there's so far to go?" (That's my summary of it, anyway) Why not both? We should appreciate how far things have come (it is truely astounding)…

"Should we be happy that we're improving, or sad that there's so far to go?"

A hardcore cynic might say, there is no improvement, only change. We might have come so far with some things, but lost or destroyed so many others in exchange.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#122

Post by DeathArrow »

The article kind of leaves the impression that being cynical is bad. The author didn't say why is the case nor did he try to provide a proof.

It doesn't seem to me that cynicism and optimism are opposites. You can be both cynical and optimistic.

If you are going to trust all people and their claimed motivations without thinking, you are going to set yourself as a victim.

For example, thinking that politicians and big corporations desire nothing but your own good won't do yourself much good.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#123

Post by lodovic »

gfodor wrote: post #2

the #1 advice I would give to a young engineer entering their career is to do everything they can to avoid becoming cynical. technology has cycles, but it also moves forward. it's a helix. most people who churn through a few cycles end up becoming cynical, failing to see the orthogonal dimension of progress. how to avoid cynicism? the primary way is to remove cynics from your life, and add optimists. second to that,…

"Removing cynics from your life" sounds a lot like living in a bubble. Like exclusively watching Disney movies and thinking that is the general mindset. Instead try to accept reality for what it is.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#124

Post by moksly »

louhike wrote: post #118

Isn’t it cynicism (or idealism) just a survival strategy which happens because of your experiences? I know I tend to be more cynical than most of my peers but I always attributed that to growing up in poverty unlike them. Sometimes it seems a lot of people think others can apply their way of thinking or seeing the world and it will make their life instantly better. But I don’t think it can happen if they don’t live i…

That is a really sad outlook to me. After decades in Enterprise IT, many in the public sector of Scandinavia you’d probably expect me to be a cynic, and if you go through my post history you’ll see very recent examples of what looks like it, but I’m actually always rather optimistic.

The healthy survival strategy in a world of shit isn’t to give up, it’s to fight on and hope for the best. It’s to come to the conclusion, that even though the road to hell is paved with good intentions, the fact that there are good intentions mean that the people actually wanted to succeed.

So while I’m very pessimistic, I’m also experienced enough to know that everyone is working for a better world.

In all my decades of working close to the political leadership and the top level decision makers, I can’t remember once meeting someone who wasn’t working for what they believed to be a better tomorrow. Maybe that’s a uniquely Danish trait, but I doubt it. What that good is, isn’t always what you or I would consider good, but my point is that even very evil decision makers are working for what they think is right.

The moment you become a cynic is the moment you lose your connection and with it, your ability to impact things. Because a manager who has the wrong view of your corporate culture, isn’t going to change unless you inspire them to be better and that applies to everyone.

Of course it’s hard to be optimistic as well. 98% or something like it of public IT system implementations fail to some extend, and if you expect them to succeed then I imagine it’ll be quite soul crushing. The key, to me at least, is to not let your pessimism turn into cynicism, because you don’t want to be the constant no-sayer either, you want to make your points and reservations clear, but then roll with the decision that gets made.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#126

Post by Borrible »

He is right. Optimism is, so far, the best cure for reality. At least the part not under control, so almost all of it. But, you may prefer it in its more elegant form of survivorship bias.

Reality is a harsh mistress. Most have to put on their beer goggles to embrace her.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#127

Post by iamacyborg »

moksly wrote: post #124
louhike wrote: post #118

Isn’t it cynicism (or idealism) just a survival strategy which happens because of your experiences? I know I tend to be more cynical than most of my peers but I always attributed that to growing up in poverty unlike them. Sometimes it seems a lot of people think others can apply their way of thinking or seeing the world and it will make their life instantly better. But I don’t think it can happen if they don’t live i…

That is a really sad outlook to me. After decades in Enterprise IT, many in the public sector of Scandinavia you’d probably expect me to be a cynic, and if you go through my post history you’ll see very recent examples of what looks like it, but I’m actually always rather optimistic. The healthy survival strategy in a world of shit isn’t to give up, it’s to fight on and hope for the best. It’s to come to the conclusi…

> everyone is working for a better world

My inner cynic is howling at this statement.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#128

Post by aww_dang »

>" A cynicism frame and mindset that turns a lot of my life into a zero-sum game."

I don't accept the premise.

Is this cynicism or outright pessimism?

>"There was always this feeling that attempts at improvements are futile. If anyone tried to improve the system in any way, they will face a great opposition, and any value they bring forward will be immediately vultured away."

>"...if someone created a coin operated parking meter, another one will quickly figure out how to steal the coins out of it. Thus, the attempt to bring order will fail..."

Cynical take, "People will abuse this system"

Pessimistic, uncreative take, "Don't even bother. Better to exploit what presently exists than attempt to create. That's what everyone else is doing, therefore I must follow the status quo."

Cynical innovative take, "It could work but it needs to be secure. The best would be if we can gamify their greed..."

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#129

Post by manmal »

bee_rider wrote: post #36
jacknews wrote: post #12

I don't think cynicism is just about stasis, but about spotting when optimistic messages are hiding a power-grabbing scheme of some kind. Or just being willing to 'follow the money', and look behind the curtain, etc. Plenty of new things are important developments, even when there are selfish actors behind them. But also plenty of new things are just scams.

Is that really cynicism? If you are willing to look behind the curtain or follow the money, you must believe there's a chance that some optimistic messages are actually honest, right? Otherwise, why bother looking? The viewpoint that says "why bother looking" is cynicism, I think. This is the viewpoint that says "all optimistic messages are power grabbing schemes." And it is a really disempowering and hopeless way of…

I think „why bother looking“ is actually defeatism. Maybe they are closely related, but I feel cynicism has more of an „I told you so“ ring to it. In that interpretation, cynicism would be about jaded expectations re the future, while defeatism would be (accompanying?) demotivation. I wouldn’t ascribe demotivation to every cynicist though.

Re: Opt Out of Cynicism

#130

Post by Ygg2 »

iamacyborg wrote: post #127
moksly wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a really sad outlook to me. After decades in Enterprise IT, many in the public sector of Scandinavia you’d probably expect me to be a cynic, and if you go through my post history you’ll see very recent examples of what looks like it, but I’m actually always rather optimistic. The healthy survival strategy in a world of shit isn’t to give up, it’s to fight on and hope for the best. It’s to come to the conclusi…

> everyone is working for a better world My inner cynic is howling at this statement.

It's true in a sense. Everyone is working on a better world.

For themselves.

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