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Bird populations declining fast across North America

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Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America

#81

Post by jwmhjwmh »

selestify wrote: post #16
moosey wrote: post #5

Until human society stops serving abstractions (like money) over things that are real, then real things will continually face consequence. These will still over into our lives in a multitude of ways until we no longer have real systems to support these abstractions. Loss of natural life is such a failure. Today we speak of stock markets, governments, businesses. Someday, our main concern will not be these shared drea…

But isn't the problem that these abstractions exist precisely to help coordinate real things? The economy (and by extension, to a limited degree, the stock market) directly influences a lot of real things and basic needs.

Yes. However, using modern computing and communication technology, it would be possible to run a complex economy with calculations "in-kind". That is, most calculation could be done using the inputs and outputs of millions of processes. Such an economy could avoid the instability of our current economy with its cyclical booms and busts.

Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America

#82

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

scotuswroteus wrote: post #2

Because they've been outed: https://birdsarentreal.com

I figured it was more because some of the drones are out-dated. Current models capture more detail and can fly longer on a single charge, so older ones are being taken out of service as they fail, rather than being repaired and returned to the sky.

Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America

#83

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

mmastrac wrote: post #3
scotuswroteus wrote: post #2

Because they've been outed: https://birdsarentreal.com

This was funny at the start, but I guarantee people with mental illnesses will start hopping on this bandwagon and you'll see people unironically protesting it.

It's Poe's Law running wild. Can't tell who is actually crazy, stupid, or gullible enough to believe it, versus those that just like to play along with it for the laughs.

Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America

#84

Post by nitrogen »

I've noticed an even more disturbing trend of learned helplessness and misanthropic Malthusianism in these threads over the years. Not a single comment, at time of writing, has had a positive tone, and there are very few actionable suggestions. No consideration is given to the many positives in modern life, nor to realistic, productive tradeoffs. Everyone wants to wail in dismay at the perceived impending doom and do nothing, or they want to actively destroy modern society.

Where is the hacker spirit? Where are the builders? If HN is no longer the place where people do things, then what is?

Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America

#85

Post by christophilus »

jdc0589 wrote: post #7
pstuart wrote: post #4

A literal canary in a coalmine situation, writ large. What is doubly distressing is that we collectively could be addressing issues such as these if we wanted to.

its kind of mind boggling to start thinking about all the stuff we do that's detrimental to birds habitat (and basically every other animal). Even down to the tiny factors like yard maintenance: do you blow/rake/bag every little thing in your yard and send it to a land fill? you just stole food/housing-material from birds, squirrels, etc...

Every time I see someone filling plastic bags with clippings, and later fertilizing their yard, I just… yeah. I honestly don’t get that behavior.

Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America

#86

Post by happyopossum »

SkipperCat wrote: post #18

I think this and many of the similar problems plaguing the earth will only be solved with a drastic reduction of people on the planet. Get the population down to 1 or 2 billion of us and a lot of these issues go away. Deforesting, not an issue if the demand for lumber is cut down by 80%. Same for coal, oil, paving, lithium... It all gets solved with just less people. 8 billion people is just too much, even if we all…

Soooo, lemme get this straight. Your solution to keeping the earth habitable for animals is genocide and forced sterilization?

Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America

#87

Post by tclancy »

nitrogen wrote: post #84

I've noticed an even more disturbing trend of learned helplessness and misanthropic Malthusianism in these threads over the years. Not a single comment, at time of writing, has had a positive tone, and there are very few actionable suggestions. No consideration is given to the many positives in modern life, nor to realistic, productive tradeoffs. Everyone wants to wail in dismay at the perceived impending doom and do…

Because this isn’t about Malthus or about hacking. It’s about the fact people trumpeting the many positives tend to ignore the people capitalism explicitly does not take care of who see none of it and are ground down to an early death. I’ve been making twenty hot meals a week for our local warming center because I have plenty of free time because I am wildly overcompensated for being able to code and every time I walk in people hold doors and thank me for the small act of bringing them meals we should all have access to regardless of how capitalism values us.

Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America

#88

Post by mypalmike »

Retric wrote: post #53
themodelplumber wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot more differences than that. You are communicating a subjective model of reality, one model of many, many models.

Within the context of a Model. Models that don’t capture the very large scale effects are useless and therefore not worth talking about. What’s left is models that used to capture large scale effects and all the smaller effects that where never captured by the model.

At any granularity, knowledge consists of models in the consciousness of the thinker.

Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America

#89

Post by darkmarmot »

lambdadmitry wrote: post #76
immmmmm wrote: post #55

the single most terrifying experience of my life has been to read biology conservation articles these last two years, coupled with my increasing understanding of climate change (literature). we often forget that ecosystems (that we barely understand) provide us with crucial benefits and should be considered as (like many planetary scientists say) Life Support Systems . if there remain historians a century from now, i…

I suspect you might be experiencing the classic freshman medical student syndrome. The papers (or medical studies) need to be contextualised, and that contextualisation takes lots more of knowledge than just reading some papers casually. Instead, I suggest reading IPCC reports. While quite stark and damning, they provide context for the predictions and balance speculation out, so you don't get "we're all going to die…

I suspect you might be suffering from "the hubris". We're quite well into the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction -- and it's only accelerating.

Re: Bird populations declining fast across North America

#90

Post by pessimizer »

roca wrote: post #61
mmstgshj wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that eco-fascism is the answer. The cause of this problem isn't people, it is capitalism and imperialism. 1/3rd of all emissions are produced by 20 companies The US Military alone puts out more carbon than the top 60 carbon emitters. “The Earth is not dying-it is being killed. And the people who are killing it have names and addresses.” — Utah Phillips

> 1/3rd of all emissions are produced by 20 companies Sure, but mostly they're producing goods and services that millions/billions of people consume. Getting rid of those 20 companies won't change anything.

It will get rid of 20 massive power centers that move politics for their own benefit. Turning those 20 companies into 500 companies would allow for political change that is impossible now.
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