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Americans are rethinking where they want to live

economist.com

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Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#251

Post by [deleted] »

lucasverra wrote: post #99
goostavos wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. Walkability is the main thing that keeps me in the city. A very large part of me wants to go back to the suburbs, rent a house, have a yard, garage -- space in general. However, every time I actually visit someone in the suburbs, the long drive there, watching things get more and more spread apart until it's just strip malls, grocery stores, and subdivisions, really saps the excitement out of having more space fo…

Paris is the Walkability by definition city. 20-min ride on a regular bike, and you've crossed half of it. Lots to dislike, but I love Paris human side ^^

[deleted]

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#252

Post by Jerrrry »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #212
ethbr0 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got family in Athens, TN and from parts more easterly. That's generally true now and previously, but I wonder about the next decade+ as relocation shifts into higher gear. My historical impression has been that locals are usually okay with a few outsiders... but when it turns into a deluge, and everyone who moves there is wealthier than them... Well, better to be nondescript than driving around east TN or KY wit…

I have family in Nashville, friends in Austin, and former co-workers in Toledo and Columbus. They've all experienced the great migration from California, and they all feel very negatively about it. I live in Houston, TX now (and grew up here), and couldn't tell you whether we have any Californians here since we've always been a super diverse city.

Nashville and Knoxville have tripled in operational and pragmatic density in the last 5 years.

Having drove to Knoxville last week, the stroads have too many cars.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#253

Post by lotsofpulp »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #234
lotsofpulp wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do those smaller downtowns thrive? The few I know usually have rich populations that do not mind spending more than what Costco/Target/Walmart/big grocery stores sell at. All it takes is the big box stores to setup camp 10 minutes outside of town and almost everyone with a car will opt to save money and shop there.

In Europe many smaller stores are competitive by aiming for high turnaround. The cut down on the selection to the things that get sold fast. German Lidl and Aldi are based on these principles and known to have very low prices. In fact I think they outcompeted wall-mart when it tried to setup shop in Germany. I remember quite good prices in the Netherlands as well which is quite densely populated and where people shop…

Lidl and Aldi are also doing very well in the US, and putting pressure on big grocery stores. But these are still too big to be downtown stores, and the merchandise is usually sold in quantities that make sense for a car.

They very well might work in a downtown, but I have yet to see it in the US.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#254

Post by alistairSH »

unexpected wrote: post #84
jacobolus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suburbs are very unfriendly for the elderly compared to cities. The ideal suburbanite is an upper-middle-class person in their 30s–50s in good health who really likes driving their large car and has hobbies they can do individually from inside their own home (e.g. woodworking, gardening), and doesn’t mind that life is miserable* there for their kids. Everyone else is more or less a second-class citizen. * Edit: subur…

Why do you automatically assume that kids are miserable in the suburbs? My kids rather like running around in our backyard, use our pool everyday in the summer, and having tons of friends on the block. At the same time, I can't imagine that they would enjoy living in 2 bedroom apartment, having no yard to play in, etc. This disdain for suburbs is quite tacky and out of touch. It's okay to think differently. I'm glad…

I grew up in the DC suburbs. The closest pool was a few miles away, so required a car. The schools were all miles away, so required car/bus. By the time I got to high school, most of my friends lived miles away, so for a few years, seeing them required transportation. Grocery store required a car. Heck, even the closest corner store required a car. Fortunately, my mom was able to stay home for many years, and when she did return to work, she went into teaching, so that transport was readily available. For kids with 2 working parents, getting around kinda sucked - it impacted their ability to get to/from school off-hours, get to sports, etc.

I still live in the DC suburbs, but picked an area with a lot more walkability. Walkable grocery store (plus pharmacy, coffee, dining). Schools are walkable. Bike paths and walking trails everywhere. Golf course out my back door. Walk to work. Walk to Metro. But, the median home price is higher here than my parents' area, and that's in an area that's already expensive.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#255

Post by throw_away_45 »

InitialLastName wrote: post #126
throw_away_45 wrote: post #49

My family moved out of NYC during the pandemic. We have a young kid and a dog - so finding a spot which had more space was imperative (given that both our gigs were remote). The few factors for us : * Is the neighborhood family / kid-friendly ? * Is it comfortable ? * Does it have space ? * Does it have some of the conveniences of a city (not a cut-off remote suburb) We moved to TX to be closer to family and it check…

Does "kid friendly" for you include a means for your child to operate independently of you in the time between "go play outside" age and driving age? I ask because I grew up in a suburb where I had the equivalent of a small urban park's playground in my back yard, but the time between that playground being useful and when I could drive were terrible for me and for my parents (who had to drive me to almost anything I…

For us it meant having enough established services such as good schooling, daycare, recreational activities within a reasonable distance.

One of the big stressors in hyper-growth cities has been that the infrastructure doesn't scale quickly enough and the waitlists for somethings can run months, if not years

E.g. daycare signups in parts of Austin

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#256

Post by nradov »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #175
snek_case wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's clear that, because people view housing as an investment, supply and demand increases the value of city housing (often to levels that seem ridiculous). Can you elaborate on the subsidisation of suburbia? Are there tax provisions that advantage them?

I think this is the "StrongTowns" argument - roughly speaking some local / federal government borrows billions and builds a suburban area, roads, sewers, schools, hospitals. Rich white people move in, taxes are collected etc. The marginal cost of the services is covered, but the bonds that raised the money may or may not be. And 2 years later the sidewalk is cracked, the sewers need replacing, the roads need widening…

StrongTowns isn't entirely wrong, but they exaggerate problems in suburbs to advance a political narrative. In reality large, dense cities are more likely to have problems funding infrastructure maintenance and government services due to persistent corruption, mismanagement, and the pernicious influence of public employee unions. Just look at the ongoing fiscal crisis in Chicago.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#257

Post by namlem »

unexpected wrote: post #84
jacobolus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suburbs are very unfriendly for the elderly compared to cities. The ideal suburbanite is an upper-middle-class person in their 30s–50s in good health who really likes driving their large car and has hobbies they can do individually from inside their own home (e.g. woodworking, gardening), and doesn’t mind that life is miserable* there for their kids. Everyone else is more or less a second-class citizen. * Edit: subur…

Why do you automatically assume that kids are miserable in the suburbs? My kids rather like running around in our backyard, use our pool everyday in the summer, and having tons of friends on the block. At the same time, I can't imagine that they would enjoy living in 2 bedroom apartment, having no yard to play in, etc. This disdain for suburbs is quite tacky and out of touch. It's okay to think differently. I'm glad…

Fwiw, I hated growing up in a suburb precisely due to the inability to get anywhere without being driven. I had to rely on my parents any time I wanted to see my friends. Having a back yard to play in wasn't much of a consolation.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#258

Post by opportune »

nradov wrote: post #236
opportune wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit simplistic. There are a lot of other reasons housing is more expensive in dense urban areas: Low supply due to underbuilding. High costs due to difficulty in getting housing approved and forced BMR units. More expensive land price. Not needing to own a car saves you money. And, most importantly, proximity to jobs and services. Living in a dense urban area saves you the time of driving and commuting, and…

Living in a dense urban area doesn't actually save you any commuting time on average. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/one-way-...

The lowest travel time to work by mode of transportation was still walking or bicycling.

I think the discrepancy between this and what I said is that I was mentioning extremely dense areas and this probably has a much broader criteria for what constitutes as urban. For example the city of Houston may be urban but there is nothing walkable about it. There are markedly few areas in the US that are mega-dense. Check out the individual places I mentioned

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#259

Post by brnt »

lucasverra wrote: post #99
goostavos wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. Walkability is the main thing that keeps me in the city. A very large part of me wants to go back to the suburbs, rent a house, have a yard, garage -- space in general. However, every time I actually visit someone in the suburbs, the long drive there, watching things get more and more spread apart until it's just strip malls, grocery stores, and subdivisions, really saps the excitement out of having more space fo…

Paris is the Walkability by definition city. 20-min ride on a regular bike, and you've crossed half of it. Lots to dislike, but I love Paris human side ^^

Thats Paris centre however, where about 600k quite rich people live. Ile-de-Paris is a bit larger, and is where most of us reside. We're happy if the RER is only 20m away from our house and work.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#260

Post by TurkishPoptart »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #157
TurkishPoptart wrote: post #121

And part of it is what public schools are doing to our kids. My 6 year old is required to sit outdoors to eat her lunch in 40ish degree (F) weather, and is not allowed to socialized. My 5 year old has to wear a mask 7 hours a day against an illness that doesn't kill kids. I'm at my wit's end with these school administrators. Hoping to be in Wyoming in 6 months' time.

> that doesn't kill kids While the numbers are low, it is not 0. This is, sadly, categorically untrue.

It's a double-digit number among healthy kids nationwide. Fewer than from influenza, peanut allergies, and accidents.
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