Americans are rethinking where they want to live • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#141

Post by FredPret » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #58

jstepka wrote: post #17

Silicon Valley / SF have had a stranglehold on the digital economy for the last 20-30 years -- nearly anything that touches electrics or software had a "tax" where some portion of that innovation flowed back as cash. With covid / the great reset, I've seen so many leave the bay area now that they can work remote. It's occured to me that SV / SF will need to reinvent itself and be in a rough patch for a couple years.…

There’s a fine line with this though — the advantage of hiring Americans in the Midwest versus hiring in Europe and Asia needs to be solidified somehow.

Several factors still favour Americans - stable, business-friendly laws, crazy high human development index, American work culture, predictable interpersonal experiences.

It’s going to be a rich continent for many generations to come.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#142

Post by foobiekr » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

jstepka wrote: post #17

Silicon Valley / SF have had a stranglehold on the digital economy for the last 20-30 years -- nearly anything that touches electrics or software had a "tax" where some portion of that innovation flowed back as cash. With covid / the great reset, I've seen so many leave the bay area now that they can work remote. It's occured to me that SV / SF will need to reinvent itself and be in a rough patch for a couple years.…

They actually aren’t dispersed at all. You have more remote workers than you had before, that’s pretty much it. It really remains to be seen what happens when those remotes go to switch jobs.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#143

Post by lotsofpulp » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #32

This article and similar ones have been written at least a 1000 times for the last decade with a clear political tinge. The poster child is always around how people want to move to Florida and Texas. But somehow it forgets to include Washington and Seattle which has probably seen the biggest tech migration and grown into the second biggest tech hub in the country, far greater than Austin or Miami (hyped up constantly…

> But somehow it forgets to include Washington and Seattle

I prefer they keep “forgetting”.

> My working hypothesis is that people in general want to live in California like places, if they can afford it.

Of course prices (and price movements) will always be the objective measure of desirability across a large population.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#144

Post by coryrc » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:30 PM UTC

likpok wrote: post #43

gknight wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you dig up sources on that? Not challenging you, but as an Angeleno I've always believed this to be true myself. Curious what may actually be happening.

There was a big study a while back that showed something like only 30% from out of state? The tricky is they had an expansive definition of "local": they were measuring where people most recently became homeless, which means almost any housing in SF for almost any amount of time meant they counted as local.

Yup, came with a week of money for a hotel or stayed with a friend for a month? local

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#145

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #121

And part of it is what public schools are doing to our kids. My 6 year old is required to sit outdoors to eat her lunch in 40ish degree (F) weather, and is not allowed to socialized. My 5 year old has to wear a mask 7 hours a day against an illness that doesn't kill kids. I'm at my wit's end with these school administrators. Hoping to be in Wyoming in 6 months' time.

[deleted]

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#146

Post by Omniusaspirer » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

nwmcsween wrote: post #52

With a remote workforce what is stopping people to move to South America, etc? Cost of living is rising dramatically with YoY housing prices hitting 20-30% (even in middle of nowhere) it just doesn't make sense financially if you arent established to stay.

Cultural differences, distance from family, language barriers, laws against foreign land/home ownership, crime, corrupt governments, etc.

I'm all for traveling and experiencing different cultures but there's a lot more than money that comes into play when you're considering a move to a developing country.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#147

Post by nradov » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

Tycho wrote: post #87

I've been thinking about what gives big cities their edge. Why some even become global hubs for particular industries. Two reasons are clearer to me now than they were in the past: - Lifestyle advantages of living amongst specialists: people can outsource various chores/tasks/jobs/errands to local specialists who can complete them much more efficiently. For instance imagine if your village doesn't have a plumber and…

Depending on specialists for everything is fragile. What happens when there are no plumbers available at any price? I see it as just sad and pathetic when city dwellers can't even do basic home maintenance like replacing a faucet cartridge or toilet seal.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#148

Post by opportune » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

sanderjd wrote: post #75

goostavos wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. Walkability is the main thing that keeps me in the city. A very large part of me wants to go back to the suburbs, rent a house, have a yard, garage -- space in general. However, every time I actually visit someone in the suburbs, the long drive there, watching things get more and more spread apart until it's just strip malls, grocery stores, and subdivisions, really saps the excitement out of having more space fo…

There's no reason (besides inertia) that we can't have both. This is how thriving smaller downtowns are, single family homes within walking distance to amenities. It's just that all those areas get really expensive because there are so few of them. But there don't have to be so few places like that.

It is common in Europe for small towns and villages to be quite walkable, have a large relative percentage multi-family housing, and have a decent train or bus connection to a regional hub. Of course, they have the advantage of being around longer than the automobile has existed.

The problem in the US is mostly cultural. Most rural/semi-rural/exurban people think nothing of an hour driving each way. So why would they want what they perceive as a tiny lot, with more expensive housing where they can hear their neighbors when they can get a huge lot and drive a little more?

The non-cultural part of the problem is that the drive-everywhere paradigm is so heavily invested that even in a small walking-oriented European -style village, everyone would need to own a car anyway. If you built a train to a regional hub it wouldn’t solve the problem of the regional hub itself having terrible public transit. Plus, it’s a lot easier to build a road than a train politically.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#149

Post by jermaustin1 » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

Jerrrry wrote: post #68

jermaustin1 wrote: post #28

I've heard this brought up as a kind of second round of white flight. The middle- and upper-class (primarily) white population is once again moving out of urban centers because telecommuting is something that these high-salary jobs afford them. I think it will rebound a bit (but not much), as moving from urban to suburban is a very difficult transition, but its even harder going the other way once you've adjusted. I…

Many like you are buying up lake-front properties in rural places. I recommend it, playing farmer-cowboy-houseboateer in Kentucky/Tennessee is a magnitude cheaper than out west, even if you fail, you are out less money than simply living elsewhere.

I'm currently in the process of buying my wife's grandpa's house in rural Louisiana. It isn't on a lot of land (only 1.5 acres), but he's selling it to us "at cost" and that was how much it cost him to build it 20 years ago. We haven't decided if we want to live there full time and give up all the niceties we currently enjoy (a target within 10 minutes vs 2.5 hours, every type of ethnic food you can imagine, etc)., but it is always there for when we retire. Starlink gets over 60mbps in the area, and my wife's telemedicine practice only needs 10mbps for SD video, which is what most of her clients run at anyway since they use their phones and iPads for their sessions.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#150

Post by malermeister » Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

coryrc wrote: post #112

In my city (Seattle), you never know if a mob is going to set up a month-long occupation outside your building, whether unregistered sex offenders have set up camp in your doorway (can't roust them), every road puts cars first, and the school is removing gifted programs for being racist. I'd love to live in a safe, well-managed, urban city. I don't believe any exist in North America.

Montreal!