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Americans are rethinking where they want to live

economist.com

21–30 of 645 posts

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#21

COL/SOL in California is appalling. SOL continues to degrade here to the point where certain parts of Bay Are (Oakland, Hayward) look more like Syria than first world nation. Trash is everywhere, even in nicer neighborhoods. Not a single park here in East Bay without encountering a homeless person. And, then I meet people here that continue to defend 1) Food is amazing 2) SF sucks! Oakland is the best place ever 3) W…

Oh goody, another Californian who is fed up with the trash heap they've created and is moving to Colorado. Can't wait for another local business to be replaced by a car wash or a Pollo Loco.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#22
> First, people have been leaving large, dense, expensive urban cores for smaller, less-dense cities and suburbs. Second, people and companies have been moving to warm, low-tax states in the South and Southwest.

Seems like there could be a convergence of the demographic trend of millennial family formation with pandemic related increase in people's perception of the value of square footage that is pushing people toward that classic Single Family Home housing product.

Problem being of course is that they're not distributed in the right places.

Of course the era of normal people without incredible levels of wealth owning a detached home in cities like SF, Seattle, etc is long over. There will only ever be less and less SFHs as these cities urbanize further.

The market urbanist solution to this issue has been to build more housing, and more apartments, townhomes and duplexes with larger footprints that are suitable for a family, so that one wouldn't need a detached home for a larger family to affordably live in one of these big cities.

That we're seeing people abandon certain urban places may be a sign of the failure of those governments to actually get any of that product sufficiently built, but it also could be a sign that, despite similar square footage, people don't see townhouses/apt housing product as the same sort of value as a detached house, and they are willing to make remarkable life changes to own a fee simple house proper.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#23

COL/SOL in California is appalling. SOL continues to degrade here to the point where certain parts of Bay Are (Oakland, Hayward) look more like Syria than first world nation. Trash is everywhere, even in nicer neighborhoods. Not a single park here in East Bay without encountering a homeless person. And, then I meet people here that continue to defend 1) Food is amazing 2) SF sucks! Oakland is the best place ever 3) W…

What does SOL stand for?

Standard of Living or Shit Out of Luck

Not sure which applies more.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#24
I moved the the suburbs way earlier than I had planned due to the pandemic and my job being much more WFH. I love it. I’m still accessible the city (14-28 minutes by train depending on schedule), I have way more space, and I’m near some really wonderful nature areas. I love having a garage and a yard and a grill. Im still near restaurants and stuff, and I kinda outgrew the bar scene a few years ago — now I’m more likely to hit a brewery or 2, which are dense in the suburbs too.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#25

My family and I decided to stay on the north side of Chicago, a very high cost of living location, despite no longer needing to head downtown every day for work. Why not move outside of Chicago where our cost living would be substantially lower? * We wanted to keep our kids in the same school, which is walking distance. * We like being walking distance to the grocery store, doctor's offices, etc. * Our kids can walk…

Being on the north side of Chicago, you're probably already in one of the "move-to" and not the "move-away" from areas.

It's expensive, but let's be serious it's nothing compared to the coast – with a good quality of life (as the reasons you stated).

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#26

COL/SOL in California is appalling. SOL continues to degrade here to the point where certain parts of Bay Are (Oakland, Hayward) look more like Syria than first world nation. Trash is everywhere, even in nicer neighborhoods. Not a single park here in East Bay without encountering a homeless person. And, then I meet people here that continue to defend 1) Food is amazing 2) SF sucks! Oakland is the best place ever 3) W…

> look more like Syria than first world nation

Serious question, have you actually been to Syria? Can you cite some sources that can prove this comparison?

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#27

It bodes poorly for the environment if people are increasingly moving from denser cities to sprawling suburbs. This is in many ways a self-inflicted problem of high-cost cities, but it should be a national priority to reverse this trend.

It depends on whether or not the move to a less dense area corresponds with increased travel and car use. My wife and I can go days without leaving our house. We have a single car. When we lived in a city, we went out multiple times per day, but it was almost exclusively on foot. We probably had the same number of car trips per week to visit friends, since most of them lived in the suburbs, plus wanting to get out into nature, which we value.

When we lived in the suburbs, in an in-between space, we probably had the highest car use, and life required two vehicles.

So, it's not either-or. There's a spectrum. You can't expect to maintain the same habits and lifestyle in a rural location as you do in a dense urban environment, etc.

Expanding rural access to electric vehicle infrastructure, and re-investing in regional rail would be transformational for these communities, though.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#28
I've heard this brought up as a kind of second round of white flight. The middle- and upper-class (primarily) white population is once again moving out of urban centers because telecommuting is something that these high-salary jobs afford them.

I think it will rebound a bit (but not much), as moving from urban to suburban is a very difficult transition, but its even harder going the other way once you've adjusted.

I miss living in NYC, but I'm actually looking to retire in the next few years, and pick up some remote land that I can settle with Starlink, and live off a VERY modest retirement (WELL under a million saved/invested) for the next 40 years. My retirement will look vastly different from my parents, as I will still work (building web apps, games, furniture, whatever tickles my fancy), just not for anyone but myself.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#29

It bodes poorly for the environment if people are increasingly moving from denser cities to sprawling suburbs. This is in many ways a self-inflicted problem of high-cost cities, but it should be a national priority to reverse this trend.

Except that this is not what's happening according to the OP. It's mostly a move from the largest, most expensive cities and suburbs towards smaller, but still high-density cities. Which implies less urban sprawl in general.

Re: Americans are rethinking where they want to live

#30
post #13

COL/SOL in California is appalling. SOL continues to degrade here to the point where certain parts of Bay Are (Oakland, Hayward) look more like Syria than first world nation. Trash is everywhere, even in nicer neighborhoods. Not a single park here in East Bay without encountering a homeless person. And, then I meet people here that continue to defend 1) Food is amazing 2) SF sucks! Oakland is the best place ever 3) W…

Yes, SOL of living has been going downhill in the Bay Area in the last 10 years. I grew up here and I can see everything just getting old and uncared for. Moving to Portland in 2022.

As a Portlander, you might wanna rethink that plan if you think standard of living will go up by moving here.
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