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Marketing is scary for a solo developer

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Re: Marketing is scary for a solo developer

#51

Post by konschubert »

tymm wrote: post #46
konschubert wrote: post #37

I've started to sell a physical product that I make and have had my google merchant account suspended twice. The algorithms claim that my ads are misleading. I don't think they are, I hope they aren't. The first time, I appealed and it got un-suspended. No reason given. I thought: Cool, must have been a mistake but it's been sorted out. Then, after a couple days, another suspension. Now I don't know what to do. Googl…

Were you able to make your Google ads profitable?

Yes, but only if I manually counted conversions that google didn't see due to ad blockers.

But yes. It was great. I felt like I had a dial that I could turn up and down to make my business go.

Then, bam, second suspension.

"Misleading ads".

I have no intention to mislead anyone.

Makes me feel very helpless.

Re: Marketing is scary for a solo developer

#52

Post by fny »

magicroot75 wrote: post #26

I work solely in marketing/advertising and have no clue how to code. I generally enjoy technology, which is why I'm on HN. I think marketers and developers need a stronger culture between ourselves. The tools of marketers (data mining, consumer behavior analysis, surveys, market testing, etc) aren't just a veneer to be applied at the completion of a development project. Marketing, when done correctly, informs UX. Mar…

No. Marketing and sales should be siloed away from devs. This is why you need a product person to intermediate.

Marketing and sales has very different incentives from developers. Marketers are often trigger happy with features because they "sell" despite the fact that these feature may have a short shelf life and may take resources away from developing of more essential product features. Developers are similarly allergic to additional development because it's (1) work (2) often results in technical debt.

You need to have an intermediary to think about what features actually matter and how they fit into a broader development roadmap otherwise you risk building a product with lots of bells and whistles no one really cares about that's a beast to maintain.

Re: Marketing is scary for a solo developer

#53

Post by davedx »

I take it one step further.

Having worked with large marketing departments, I have decided I don’t like marketing at all. It tends to follow psychological tactics to gain attention, often in deceptive or underhanded ways. You van see this by looking at the kind of features products like Hubspot offer: lots of creepy “tracking” of leads.

Contrast with sales: sales is about directly showing people your product and getting them to buy it because it helps them solve problems in their business. It’s much more honest, both the offering and the end goal.

On my current project I will be starting and finishing with sales (direct) and any content that supports that goal. Tweets, blogs, SEO and spammy landing pages? Nope.

Re: Marketing is scary for a solo developer

#54

Post by DarylZero »

hluska wrote: post #38
_teyd wrote: post #17

I feel like I've been in quicksand for the last year. I've built something that my cofounder and I are using internally for remote collaboration, along with a couple support people, and it's great. But none of us have been able to figure out how to talk about it in a way that generates interest. This is really hard if you're more of a natural builder than a seller.

Hey friend, I understand exactly where you’re coming from. When I started high school in the 90s, my stutter was such that you would have had a lot of trouble understanding me. When I started building stuff, marketing seemed like voodoo. I learned. And frankly, I was so inept that if I can learn, you’re going to be an expert. You’ve got this. Seriously, you’ve got this. I’d put my last dollar on you because you’ve go…

Big difference is, you can try inputting code into a compiler all day. But opportunities to sell are few and far between.

Re: Marketing is scary for a solo developer

#55

Post by ttymck »

enriquto wrote: post #44
magicroot75 wrote: post #26

I work solely in marketing/advertising and have no clue how to code. I generally enjoy technology, which is why I'm on HN. I think marketers and developers need a stronger culture between ourselves. The tools of marketers (data mining, consumer behavior analysis, surveys, market testing, etc) aren't just a veneer to be applied at the completion of a development project. Marketing, when done correctly, informs UX. Mar…

> This is not the optimal means to delivering a high-impact product. This is just a single data point, but for a view "from the other side", my honest and immediate answer to this question is: "I don't care". When writing programs, my concern has never been "to deliver a high-impact product". In fact, I find this language very annoying; and saying that my program is a "product" feels like a very offensive insult. The…

I understand your viewpoint, but I feel like you are talking about something else entirely. GP discussed (paraphrasing): "building a product, trying to get customers", so to respond by saying "it's not a product, I don't want customers" isn't exactly continuing the discussion.

For hobby projects, I agree with you whole-heartedly.

Re: Marketing is scary for a solo developer

#56

Post by hluska »

enriquto wrote: post #44
magicroot75 wrote: post #26

I work solely in marketing/advertising and have no clue how to code. I generally enjoy technology, which is why I'm on HN. I think marketers and developers need a stronger culture between ourselves. The tools of marketers (data mining, consumer behavior analysis, surveys, market testing, etc) aren't just a veneer to be applied at the completion of a development project. Marketing, when done correctly, informs UX. Mar…

> This is not the optimal means to delivering a high-impact product. This is just a single data point, but for a view "from the other side", my honest and immediate answer to this question is: "I don't care". When writing programs, my concern has never been "to deliver a high-impact product". In fact, I find this language very annoying; and saying that my program is a "product" feels like a very offensive insult. The…

That’s the marketing mindset. Marketers are not builders and they are incapable of understanding why we build things. Sometimes we build something to solve a problem that we have. Sometimes we build something because we want to learn. Other times, we build things because we’re bored.

We don’t need a product placement meeting before we type git -m commit “First commit” and if we did, the bast majority of cool things would never have been built. Sometimes we just build because that’s what builders do.

Re: Marketing is scary for a solo developer

#57

Post by bvaldivielso »

enriquto wrote: post #44
magicroot75 wrote: post #26

I work solely in marketing/advertising and have no clue how to code. I generally enjoy technology, which is why I'm on HN. I think marketers and developers need a stronger culture between ourselves. The tools of marketers (data mining, consumer behavior analysis, surveys, market testing, etc) aren't just a veneer to be applied at the completion of a development project. Marketing, when done correctly, informs UX. Mar…

> This is not the optimal means to delivering a high-impact product. This is just a single data point, but for a view "from the other side", my honest and immediate answer to this question is: "I don't care". When writing programs, my concern has never been "to deliver a high-impact product". In fact, I find this language very annoying; and saying that my program is a "product" feels like a very offensive insult. The…

Your point is not against GP's point. It seems from your comment that you don't want to deliver a high-impact product, and that even the thought of your program as a "product" is offensive. Well, GP is not forcing you to work towards high-impact products. If you want to solve your own problems, then do, and follow whatever workflow you want.

Re: Marketing is scary for a solo developer

#59

Post by hluska »

ttymck wrote: post #55
enriquto wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not the optimal means to delivering a high-impact product. This is just a single data point, but for a view "from the other side", my honest and immediate answer to this question is: "I don't care". When writing programs, my concern has never been "to deliver a high-impact product". In fact, I find this language very annoying; and saying that my program is a "product" feels like a very offensive insult. The…

I understand your viewpoint, but I feel like you are talking about something else entirely. GP discussed (paraphrasing): "building a product, trying to get customers", so to respond by saying "it's not a product, I don't want customers" isn't exactly continuing the discussion. For hobby projects, I agree with you whole-heartedly.

That’s the other side of the builder mindset. It’s relatively easy for builders to build things that solve their own problems. That’s a tool and builders like tools. It takes a really big mental leap to go from “I built a thing” to “I built a product.”

The thing is, things are products. But the answer isn’t “all hackers are wrong, you’re dumb for not involving me early on.” Rather, the answer is ‘chill, you’ve got this.’

Re: Marketing is scary for a solo developer

#60

Post by mellavora »

magicroot75 wrote: post #26

I work solely in marketing/advertising and have no clue how to code. I generally enjoy technology, which is why I'm on HN. I think marketers and developers need a stronger culture between ourselves. The tools of marketers (data mining, consumer behavior analysis, surveys, market testing, etc) aren't just a veneer to be applied at the completion of a development project. Marketing, when done correctly, informs UX. Mar…

I think this post deserves a friendlier response. magicroot seems intent on offering helpful advice. Nowhere does (s)he say "hire me" or that they have the only answer; in fact the opposite.

They are suggesting that just as a unit test is an important aspect of determining functionality, it may be helpful to have a metric of how much excitement a certain feature may engender.

I'm not going to judge the quality of that advice; I just offer the possibility that it was a well-intentioned attempt to add a view from a different professional perspective.

perhaps we can be forgiving to someone who is perhaps acting in a socially awkward manner?

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