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Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#351

Post by garyclarke27 »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #230
haxiomic wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s plenty of room for life extension Evolution doesn’t optimise for length of life, just propagation. A number of species have evolved to have very short life cycles because that enabled greater propagation. Presumably shorter lives generally confer greater adaptability as it increases the opportunity for evolutionary change

Evolution does optimize longevity in at least one way. Chromosomes have a limited number of telomeres, each time the cell divides the telomeres become shorter. If your cell runs out of telomeres it can't divide anymore. This is one of the primary mechanisms the body balances repair against cancer risk. Current max of human life is about 120. If you don't "solve" the telomere problem you are not going to extend life p…

Telomerase - an Enzyme found in Gamete and Stem (and Tumor!) Cells can reverse this Telomere shortening. Cycloastragenol derived from Astragalus herb can supposedly activate Telomerase - unfortunately it's very expensive to extract in significant quantities eg TA-65 costs $800 for 90 capsules. I tried it for a while and definitely noticed an effect, better skin, vivid dreams more energy. High cost and some concern over potential for Tumor promotion put me off continuing.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#352

Post by hoseja »

q1w2 wrote: post #223
obblekk wrote: post #194

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

This is essentially creating an auto-immune disease in old age - by having the body target it's own cells. It's also not clear how the researchers prevented the immune cells from dying in the Thymus (who's function is specifically to prevent immune cells from being coded to attack cells in the body - it's like a UAT environment). ...but the bigger question would be - If this protein encoded a protein that identified…

What? Immune cells attack the body all the time, how do you think you're not all cancer. It's only a disease when they attack useful cells too much.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#353

Post by lambdadmitry »

sAbakumoff wrote: post #349
obblekk wrote: post #194

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

>>Economically and ethically, we should prioritize this research above most else. Sure, f*ck climate change, let's just live and suffer longer

This is such a poor argument.

- the GP haven't said "fuck climate change", you did. There is no contradiction there, we can try and solve more than one issue at once.

- climate change objectively speaking kills way less people than ageing and will continue to kill less for the foreseeable future. You grandma (or grand-grandma) wasn't killed by climate change, neither will you.

- I don't know about you, but my life is not full of suffering, climate change or not, and I would prefer it to be longer and healthier. If yours is, I suggest looking at reasons other than climate change.

- We have to retrain every generation of scientists and engineers before they can contribute to solutions for any problem, climate change included. Increasing the amount of output per trainee by half goes a VERY long way towards solving our issues including climate change.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#354

Post by ahD5zae7 »

q1w2 wrote: post #223
obblekk wrote: post #194

1. Removing senescent cells extends life by 30-40% with huge quality of life improvements in the last 25% of the life (relative to control), in mice. This isn't an elimination of all aging, but quite a valuable thing regardless. Eventually, other causes of aging would kick in and still cause death, without a single senescent cell in your body (e.g. DNA methylation). 2. I believe all governments should create Warpspee…

This is essentially creating an auto-immune disease in old age - by having the body target it's own cells. It's also not clear how the researchers prevented the immune cells from dying in the Thymus (who's function is specifically to prevent immune cells from being coded to attack cells in the body - it's like a UAT environment). ...but the bigger question would be - If this protein encoded a protein that identified…

> why hasn't any mammal evolved to start destroying them?

I think that evolution selects mostly for reproduction and not longevity. You don't have to live very long to have many kids (in like caveman / hunter-gatherer type of context as this is where evolution is basically), you just need to have great genetics. I guess sticking around for a few years after to protect the kids and provide for them is a bonus, but that part may be handled by the tribe too. But there's not much to be gained (from evolutionary point of view) from an individual living up to a 100 years or so.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#355

Post by FredPret »

anonymoushn wrote: post #340
Sophistifunk wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that anti-aging medicine is good because we could force a bunch of old people out of retirement is horrifying.

The old people could have retired much earlier if they had shorter lifespans, so we should work on pro-aging drugs.

Cigarettes for babies… for early retirement

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#356

Post by ekianjo »

junon wrote: post #174
ekianjo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And, vaccines have general positive effects of health: https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-maga ... If you believe that vaccines may have potentially positive effects beyond their original scope, you must also be ready for the opposite, potential negative effects beyond their original scope. If you don't, you are just being brainwashed by big Pharma.

I wish I had the time to make a chrome extension that replaced all usages of "big pharma" with "a thing I don't personally understand but hand-wave away because I refuse to do proper research on my own". It would make such comments much more meaningful and honest.

Said like someone who completely avoid the whole argument by convenience.

Big Pharma is a thing. A consolidated industry with very few major players who have huge regulatory capture. You can either continue being blind to it or realize they have a disproportionate influence in how decisions are taken.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#357

Post by FredPret »

labster wrote: post #226
haxiomic wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there’s plenty of room for life extension Evolution doesn’t optimise for length of life, just propagation. A number of species have evolved to have very short life cycles because that enabled greater propagation. Presumably shorter lives generally confer greater adaptability as it increases the opportunity for evolutionary change

Evolution can optimize for longer lifespans if it makes propagation more favorable. It happened in humans — grandparents make us more successful. Except when they run our governments.

Some of our greatest leaders have been very old. Good and old are unrelated concepts

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#358

Post by BurningFrog »

hsn915 wrote: post #295
BurningFrog wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a deep misunderstanding of what jobs are. They're not "things" that exist in a limited supply. You can think of them as relationships between people. When population increases, no one worries that society will "run out" of friendships or marriages. Jobs work the same way.

Actually they do. Without naming names, let's assume two populations, A and B. A-Females are willing to marry B-Males, but B-Females are not willing to marry A-Males. This creates lots of abundance for B-Males and lots of scarcity for A-Makes. As for jobs, in theory they can always be created a new. But in practice there are 1) very few people who can create jobs 2) external forces that might prevent new jobs from be…

In this scenario, a certain percentage of the population won't get married.

My point is only that if the population increases, that percentage will stay the same. The number of marriages will increase proportionally.

> in practice there are 1) very few people who can create jobs 2) external forces that might prevent new jobs from being created

If that's true where do all the current jobs come from? How come almost everyone can get a job?

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#359

Post by junon »

ekianjo wrote: post #356
junon wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I had the time to make a chrome extension that replaced all usages of "big pharma" with "a thing I don't personally understand but hand-wave away because I refuse to do proper research on my own". It would make such comments much more meaningful and honest.

Said like someone who completely avoid the whole argument by convenience. Big Pharma is a thing. A consolidated industry with very few major players who have huge regulatory capture. You can either continue being blind to it or realize they have a disproportionate influence in how decisions are taken.

Pharmaseutical companies cannot just place products on the shelf without regulation. And no, they do not have some conspired place in the government rungs that gives them any sort of sway. There were LOADS of pharma companies that were denied the ability to produce a vaccine because they didn't meet the requirements.

And just like your doctors aren't incentivized to misdiagnose you to run more tests and get more money from you, pharma companies are not incentivized to mislead patients and make them think they need 10 shots when 1 will do. There are so, so many independent research groups, including several in the government, that would love to publish findings that pharma companies are misleading people. It does happen, but not often.

Re: Japanese scientists develop vaccine to eliminate cells behind aging

#360

Post by sAbakumoff »

lambdadmitry wrote: post #353
sAbakumoff wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Economically and ethically, we should prioritize this research above most else. Sure, f*ck climate change, let's just live and suffer longer

This is such a poor argument. - the GP haven't said "fuck climate change", you did. There is no contradiction there, we can try and solve more than one issue at once. - climate change objectively speaking kills way less people than ageing and will continue to kill less for the foreseeable future. You grandma (or grand-grandma) wasn't killed by climate change, neither will you. - I don't know about you, but my life is…

>> I would prefer it to be longer and healthier.

So, you are fixating on "healthy" and "long" life and you are SO afraid of death that the idea of aging cure seems to be attractive. Delusion, greed, and aversion are classic poisons that are the root cause of all human suffering.

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