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This website has 81% battery power remaining

solar.lowtechmagazine.com

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Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#291

Post by lapinot »

obblekk wrote: post #168

*Technically*, this is very cool, impressive, and generally an elegant work of art. *Pragmatically*, I see 2 flaws in their thesis (as explained on the about page): >> "The entire network already consumes 10% of global electricity production with traffic doubling roughly every 2 years" I think the implication is electricity consumption will also double roughly every 2 years, but Moore's law actually operates on appro…

> This essentially shifts some of the burden of computation from the server (PNG compression) to the browser (dithering interpretation). This may save some energy, or it may increase energy as most personal computer processors are much less efficient than server processors, and don't benefit from energy savings from caching.

I believe doing image color setting is already eaten up inside the cost of doing png decompression: the client is already doing image manipulation, this is just doing an additional multiplication, so i believe it is minimal additional cost on the client (i may be wrong tho, never wrote a png decoder).

> I think the implication is electricity consumption will also double roughly every 2 years, but Moore's law actually operates on approx. same timeline, so traffic can continue doubling at this rate without an increase in energy consumption.

We're not doing more with the same amount of energy, we're doing much more with more energy. This is always the same energy efficiency fallacy: being more efficient (in percent "out/in") usually requires having bigger "in" (bigger scale). And you know, the thing that capitalistic companies always seek to get bigger no matter what. There's no incentive to maintain you current consumption. See https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2018/01/bedazzled-by-energ... for more details by same source.

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#292

Post by 8bitsrule »

fastball wrote: post #245
deanCommie wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it's a very useful metaphor for the work ahead in dealing with energy production, consumption, storage, efficiency, etc. Layer 1: We must think of clever solutions to reduce our energy footprint where possible and shifting typical energy uses around is one way to do so Layer 2: But we must also be conscious and aware of economies of scale, and shifting the burden of energy usage from one central server to…

I'd rather avoid all these layers and just build so much nuclear we get to a future where electricity is too cheap to meter.

Current world power consumption is about 15 terawatts. That's 15,000 gigawatts. [0] One gigawatt takes about 1 nuke. So, 15,000 nukes. Round that down to 10,000 nukes; ignore demand from new electric cars and cooling, and required downtime.

On a very good day, a new nuke rounds down to $10 billion. 10^4 x 10^10 = $ 100 trillion. Not to mention mining, operating, disposal, and environmental costs. Or tsunamis, or profits, or interest.

In other units (Q = 10^18 joules) Total world energy consumption per year: 400 Q. Total solar power striking the Earth each year: more than 4 x 10^6 Q.[1] Catch 1/10,000 of that.

[0] https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-scienc...

[1] http://sites.science.oregonstate.edu/~hetheriw/energy/topics...

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#293

Post by denysvitali »

zucker42 wrote: post #68
ascar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key here is that it's just a very simple website with very low computational requirements.

And yet it provides the same amount of information as other websites 10 or 100 times it's weight.

https://thebestmotherfucking.website/

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#294

Post by mro_name »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #232
mro_name wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't be a sculptor if you avoid the chisel. If in rome, do as the romans do. If you want to swim, you'll get wet. There is no design in/for the web without html+css, is there? Edit: by removing 3rd parties from your project you remove a lot of overhead and current and future risk. But be warned: Maybe your company sells exactly that for a good margin and you ruin the business model.

We don't want to sculptors. We have other projects that just happen to require a sculpture as part of finishing them. > There is no design in/for the web without html+css, is there? Only as much as there's no programming without assembly language.

> We don't want to sculptors.

It is really sad that you are forced to do things that you believe you are not capable of doing and refuse to do.

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#295

Post by mro_name »

charrondev wrote: post #204
mro_name wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> by Disqus or something depends on what you want, the low end is incoming comments as emails and putting them semi-manually into an iframe on the unchanged static article page. Doing it myself at https://blog.mro.name/2019/05/wp-to-hugo-making-of/ and sacrificed commenter speed. Others may easily be more sophisticated than above brutalist solution. But still: comments in iframes align well with static sites IMO. Ed…

I’m a technical lead for a SaaS community forum product and we handle billions of page views a month. Many of them don’t put any load on our servers though because guest pages are cached with a short duration and the cached page gets served up. Today that’s cloudflare but in the past it was varnish. Otherwise it is very dynamic. Different users have access to different content so we generally can’t cache full pages a…

nice. You're working regularly on the website. Not all do.

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#296

Post by y4mi »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #241
y4mi wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out the upcoming ATX power consumption and compare it to what we're using currently... What you said was true for a very long time, but Moore's law has slowed down a lot over the last 5yrs and power consumption has increased significantly, and is about to become unreasonable in my opinion. Maximum power draw of 2.4 kw for about to 10% of the uptime is ... sadly going to be reality soon.

> power consumption has increased significantly, and is about to become unreasonable in my opinion It is not the first time it has happened, and then went down again. It's just one of the usual "cycles".

I don't think we've went through a circle of more then doubling the power consumption before, but I've only been paying attention to it since shortly before 2010, as I was using prebuilt systems before that.

Maybe you're right and more then doubling the power consumption is a normal thing that just occasionally happens.

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#298

Post by ratsforhorses »

fastball wrote: post #245
deanCommie wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it's a very useful metaphor for the work ahead in dealing with energy production, consumption, storage, efficiency, etc. Layer 1: We must think of clever solutions to reduce our energy footprint where possible and shifting typical energy uses around is one way to do so Layer 2: But we must also be conscious and aware of economies of scale, and shifting the burden of energy usage from one central server to…

I'd rather avoid all these layers and just build so much nuclear we get to a future where electricity is too cheap to meter.

But isn't one of the problems of global warming (ie where humans have a "future") the amount of waste heat we are producing?

https://environmentalsystemsresearch.springeropen.com/articl...

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#299

Post by mro_name »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #193
mro_name wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> by Disqus or something depends on what you want, the low end is incoming comments as emails and putting them semi-manually into an iframe on the unchanged static article page. Doing it myself at https://blog.mro.name/2019/05/wp-to-hugo-making-of/ and sacrificed commenter speed. Others may easily be more sophisticated than above brutalist solution. But still: comments in iframes align well with static sites IMO. Ed…

I like this approach, is there something specific you're using to automate this at least in part? I feel like it could be made into a simple service with very limited JS to make it less "slow", unless you decide to manually approve of a comment.

> automate

not yet, but I think of a delayed shell script (cron 15min?). JS (clientside) may be not of much use.

Or use a feedback webform via https://github.com/mro/form2xhtml - doesn't have to be email then.

Or monitor IMAP folders for accepted comments and cron them to the webserver a la https://codeberg.org/mro/flohmarkt.monte-ts.de/src/branch/ma... and online.sh

Re: This website has 81% battery power remaining

#300

Post by fer »

java-man wrote: post #243
petters wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to get even 100Mbit in Paulo Alto? Must be hard for everyone working remotely these days....

My AT&T DSL is blasting at 3 MBit/s down and 0.5 MBit/s up!

And I was complaining about 15/1 from my DSL. Ironically I work for the company that won't lay fiber fast enough, yet asks me to work remotely.
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