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Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

economist.com

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Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#301

Post by Jensson »

WalterBright wrote: post #285
DarylZero wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With so much income inequality, differences in savings rates cannot possibly be that important.

What you do with the savings makes all the difference. For example, you could invest it to upgrade your job skills, making for a much higher income level. Investing it at the current negative 4% or so is not much better than setting it on fire.

Investing in yourself is only worth it if you are better than average. People who aren't just waste time and money trying. But if you are better than average then investing in yourself is huge. That is essentially the only reason investing in a start-up would be better than just investing in someone else's start-up, you have to bet that you are better than the other people. And then if you keep reinvesting in yourself and you are consistently better than the CEO's of big companies then you become a billionaire, but of course most people don't generate those returns when you invest in them.

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#303

Post by fartcannon »

cj wrote: post #92
fartcannon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also not possible for everyone to succeed since it's a zero sum game. Therefore, you should be thanking the people who's life circumstances prevent them from learning to succeed and doubly you should thank your parents for raising you in a way that you were able to surpass them.

> it's a zero sum game I’m not an economist, but I don’t think it’s a zero sum game considering the total productivity / economic output of a society can go up (or down). Your success doesn’t need to be at the expense of someone else’s success. > you should be thanking the people who's life circumstances prevent them from learning to succeed What?

> What?

What?

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#304

Post by achillesheels »

sfifs wrote: post #299
Swizec wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s easy to choose the artist life if your parents can bail you out when shit happens. A little harder if you’re expected to be the bail out for your parents.

Very true. I've literally seen this play out with some friends and cousins in extended family in the last 10-15 years. At a critical period, some had to find work to support the family especially as the health of parents started failing, the ones who could rely on family wealth were able to focus full time or almost full time on their art and are now climbing the echelons as established artists.

This is no different than historical standards of artwork. Indeed, it is from those who can afford to sustain an independent spirit, where genuine artistry extends itself into the human pursuit of perfection. When money is not an object this eternal motivation can progress itself unhindered.

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#305

Post by visarga »

notacoward wrote: post #165
twoodfin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is 100% correct but somehow got shuffled to the bottom and greyed. It doesn’t make sense to measure income mobility in anything but absolute terms: Would you rather move one quintile in a wide income distribution or two within a much narrower one?

That's a totally disingenuous comparison because it ignores both prices and the actual shape of the distribution. Don't perseverate over big numbers. If everyone's income doubled overnight we'd have a wider range ... but it would be utterly meaningless if prices also doubled. Likewise, if a trillionaire magically appeared the total range would increase but that would have zero effect on what a quintile difference mea…

Depends on what politicians the trillionaire is spending his money on.

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#306

Post by fartcannon »

999900000999 wrote: post #143
fartcannon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also not possible for everyone to succeed since it's a zero sum game. Therefore, you should be thanking the people who's life circumstances prevent them from learning to succeed and doubly you should thank your parents for raising you in a way that you were able to surpass them.

My childhood was a living hell because my parents don't want to work or do anything. I went through multiple evictions by the time I was 19, I consider myself exceptionally lucky that I was able to afford my first apartment at 19 years old because otherwise I don't think I'd still be here. At the same time, I've met tons of adults who were in their '30s whose parents never just said no. Their parents never said you n…

No one should have to go through that, my condolences to you for your lost childhood. I am glad to hear that you have succeeded inspite of your hardship.

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#307

Post by [deleted] »

bogota wrote: post #90
fartcannon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also not possible for everyone to succeed since it's a zero sum game. Therefore, you should be thanking the people who's life circumstances prevent them from learning to succeed and doubly you should thank your parents for raising you in a way that you were able to surpass them.

How is it a zero sum game? I see this said a lot here without any proof? It this just taken as true and no proof is needed?

[deleted]

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#308

Post by [deleted] »

fourtrees wrote: post #181
forgotmyoldname wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, wars were fought over that and revolutions had. People decidedly did not like royalty, large so-wealthy-it's-hard-to-achieve groups, being so far above them. For a while, people much preferred knowing they could work hard or smart and make progress from the bottom to the top 20%. We're talking about the top 20% here. Not the top 0.1%.

This is one of my big take-aways from the article. My great-(great?-)-grandparents from Eastern Europe armed with nothing but excellent numeracy, some English, and the clothes on their backs. They could reliably expect to enter move out of post-immigration poverty based on skills cultivated for the purpose of success in the US. My great-x-grandfather ended up a bank manager. And they passed money and knowledge along…

[deleted]

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#309

Post by hintymad »

From Taleb's book Skin in the Game:

Consider that about ten percent of Americans will spend at least a year in the top one percent and more than half of all Americans will spent a year in the top ten percent. This is visibly not the same for the more static –but nominally more equal –Europe. For instance, only ten percent of the wealthiest five hundred American people or dynasties were so thirty years ago; more than sixty percent of those on the French list were heirs and a third of the richest Europeans were the richest centuries ago. In Florence, it was just revealed that things are really even worse: the same handful of families have kept the wealth for five centuries.

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#310

Post by visarga »

cj wrote: post #92
fartcannon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also not possible for everyone to succeed since it's a zero sum game. Therefore, you should be thanking the people who's life circumstances prevent them from learning to succeed and doubly you should thank your parents for raising you in a way that you were able to surpass them.

> it's a zero sum game I’m not an economist, but I don’t think it’s a zero sum game considering the total productivity / economic output of a society can go up (or down). Your success doesn’t need to be at the expense of someone else’s success. > you should be thanking the people who's life circumstances prevent them from learning to succeed What?

Half of the population earn less than the median income. How can we make more than half earn above median?
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