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Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

economist.com

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Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#51
post #28
post #23

Social mobility is very different than economic mobility. It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field. Heck, I did it without any college. Social mobility is a different story. I was raised in a rural area, which is essentially a social class of its own. Since becoming an adult, I've found myself gravitating towards working-class people. I like the blu…

Ah, survivor bias

Not even that. Just sheltered fool bias.

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#52
post #8

America is being attacked by pervasive narratives like this. News rags the whole world over are shitting on us, meanwhile authoritarian regimes are rising to power. It's a narrative dismantling, and we're being played like fools. America is still the best country in the world to start a business and take risks. America still has more freedoms (speech especially) than most of the world. (Side note: The left wants to p…

I'd just like to point out one thing I've noticed quite a bit and would love Europeans to chime in - that is - European exceptionalism. We, Americans, were known for American exceptionalism but that has eroded to a point where I haven't heard a single good thing about America in the last decade or so. We're shameful and contemptful of our nation. Slightest positive thing is considered nationalistic and right-wing, so…

I'm surprised to read this given the political situation in the United States. As an outsider it seems like the entire Trump movement has a strong basis in nationalism and exceptionalism, and it was endorsed by half the country's population.

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#53
post #23

Social mobility is very different than economic mobility. It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field. Heck, I did it without any college. Social mobility is a different story. I was raised in a rural area, which is essentially a social class of its own. Since becoming an adult, I've found myself gravitating towards working-class people. I like the blu…

> It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field.

If you want to call what the article measures "economic mobility", OK. Regardless of terminology, the point is that Americans think it's easier than it actually is to go from the bottom quintile of income to the top. If "it's not hugely difficult" translates to "more than a 7.8% chance of going from bottom quintile to top", then you'd be among them.

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#54
post #23

Social mobility is very different than economic mobility. It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field. Heck, I did it without any college. Social mobility is a different story. I was raised in a rural area, which is essentially a social class of its own. Since becoming an adult, I've found myself gravitating towards working-class people. I like the blu…

>Social mobility is very different than economic mobility

Truly. And unfortunately while the headline says "social mobility" the article looks at economic mobility, specifically income quintiles (as opposed to wealth accumulation).

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#55
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 8% of people in the United States make more than $100k: https://graphics.wsj.com/what-percent/ Don't know if I'd call it easy if it's something only 8 out of 100 people do. It also depends on the area. $100k in SF is a lot different than $100k in the mid-west.

I definitely have survivorship bias, but I also know many people who've done similar things in different fields. I think knowing other people who make plenty of money helps, but often only by way of example. Knowing it's possible means you'll work harder.

“What I’ve seen contradicts measured statistics across the country” is not a convincing argument. Most users of HN probably live in a bubble; important to look at hard data from reliable sources rather than personal experiences.

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#57
Social mobility is a very tricky thing. I think every person can succeed as long as they have the courage to cut off people who are counterproductive to that. For example, when I look at my own parents, they're simply self-destructive people who never took responsibility for any of their actions. Whenever I've needed to depend on anyone in my family. I've ultimately been let down, but when it comes to my own efforts. You know I got my own apartment when I was 19, and I've made six figures, despite a family member screwing me out of finishing college, by the time I was 25. It's very hard to cut off your own family though, but whatever situation your parents are in, that's the situation they're in. I did make the mistake of trying to save my family members, and it was a very costly mistake.

They were perfectly fine with ruining the life I built for myself, up until I blocked most of them and just moved to a different city. Work hard and cut off lazy people. Don't get involved of anyone who doesn't want to work, outside of laziness being disgusting upon itself, these people tend to cause unlimited drama. A person who's finishing up their PhD, while working full time doesn't have time to cause problems. Someone who's 28 or 29 and still doesn't work has plenty of problem causing time.

Once you understand this, and just to add, make sure if you're having trouble finding the right type of people where you live, you consider moving. I'm from LA, I've had so many strange situations created by people who I've alluded to above. The moment I left LA, I had a fantastic partner, and I've never had someone try to put me in a volatile situation since.

All of this sad, I've been very lucky. Medical conditions I'd be screwed. All it takes is a single severe medical condition to financially ruin you, and then you can't afford treatment, in this country says good luck try a go fund me

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#58
Again, it's highly problematic defining mobility as "moving from bottom quintile to top quintile".

- Moving from bottom quintile to 2nd highest is significant mobility and completely ignored in this analysis.

- The analysis ignores the fact that the highest quintile in the US is higher in absolute terms than other countries. So moving from bottom to 4th may give more income than bottom to 5th in other countries.

- This analysis also ignores the changes of income within quintiles. The 3rd quintile in 1980 isn't the same income in 2020. 3rd quintile could see significant income improvements.

- This analysis also ignores government transfers.

- Countries that have a lower income spread, but overall less income would do better.

Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country

#60
post #23

Social mobility is very different than economic mobility. It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field. Heck, I did it without any college. Social mobility is a different story. I was raised in a rural area, which is essentially a social class of its own. Since becoming an adult, I've found myself gravitating towards working-class people. I like the blu…

A few lessons for social mobility I learned while joining the SF techie class, coming here from a relatively poor country in Europe.

1. If Americans can’t read your emotes they put you in a “Uh this feels weird, that person is an emotionless robot” camp. You have to practice

2. It is not okay to ask “What’s that?” when someone proudly mentions which college they went to (because as a European you only recognize 4 or 5)

3. Talking about money with upper middle class people is impolite. They have never had money problems and do not understand why anyone would ever talk about money

4. You should instead talk about your investments

5. Saying “Charity? That’s what taxes is for” is considered trolling

6. Rent and real estate are the only times it’s socially acceptable to say “Damn, life is expensive”

7. You have to talk about helping the less fortunate

8. It is not okay to directly help the less fortunate on your street, wouldn’t want to make them feel like it’s okay to be there

9. You can only say positive things about your boss (because you aim to become them)

10. It is okay to say negative things about your boss’s boss’s boss

11. Every acquaintance is “a friend”

12. Real friends are “best/close friend”

13. Everyone hires cleaners and similar help, this is not considered a luxury

14. Everything is always awesome

15. You don’t fail, you are given an opportunity to grow

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