How different is the top quintile of earnings between countries? For example (made up numbers), if the top quintile in the UK earn $100k and the top quintile in the US earn $400k, it's not really the same comparison to move from the bottom to the top. Going from earning $20k to $100k is going to be different than going from $20k to $400k. I suspect the top is higher in the US.
Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
41–50 of 391 posts
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#42Social mobility is very different than economic mobility. It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field. Heck, I did it without any college. Social mobility is a different story. I was raised in a rural area, which is essentially a social class of its own. Since becoming an adult, I've found myself gravitating towards working-class people. I like the blu…
This is not your main point, but in the spirit of Americans overestimating social mobility, you may be overestimating "family values" among the working class. According to the 2015 US census, the share of people who have been divorced at least once is 46% (poor), 41% (working class) and 30% (middle and upper class). Similarly, people who report they are "very happy" in marriage are 54% (poor), 56% (working class) and…
I'm telling an anecdotal story, and in my area the working class is very Catholic, black, or both. YMMV, not valid in California.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#43The article measures mobility based on one's percentile movement across the income distribution. There are more rungs to climb in the US because there's a wider income range, whereas in Europe income differences are compressed. The same income increase in absolute terms gets you more social mobility in Europe than in the US. I'm initially skeptical of studies that imply large-scale misunderstanding among the public a…
> there's a wider income range ...and that's why such comparisons should be done using percentiles instead of absolute values. Which they did. > The conclusion of the article is in part a reflection of the methodology. The biggest methodological flaw points in quite a different direction than you seem to be suggesting. Change in percentile across the income distribution is less informative than change in percentile a…
Absolute is what matters. If 80% of your society is earning between $60k and $90k, a quintile jump around the middle is small compared to a similar shift in a $40k to $180k society. Relative mobility doesn’t buy you a vacation home.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#44Social mobility is really hard to measure, but all else equal, I think America is the best place in the world for a poor person to become filthy rich (top 0.1%) but not the best place in the world for a poor person to simply transition to middle/upper class.
I really would like to see some statistics about this. I have a feeling that many people will agree with you, simply because
1. the American "rags to riches" story is one that the media bombards people with over and over again
2. Lots of people simply lie about the circumstances they come from
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#45Social mobility is very different than economic mobility. It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field. Heck, I did it without any college. Social mobility is a different story. I was raised in a rural area, which is essentially a social class of its own. Since becoming an adult, I've found myself gravitating towards working-class people. I like the blu…
> Americans overestimate social mobility in their country (economist.com)
>> HOW likely is someone to move up the economic ladder?
> It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field.
> https://personalfinancedata.com/income-percentile-calculator...
>> An income of $100,000 for ages 40 to 100 ranks at the 89.82%
good to see evidence the article is correct in the wild.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#46Social mobility is very different than economic mobility. It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field. Heck, I did it without any college. Social mobility is a different story. I was raised in a rural area, which is essentially a social class of its own. Since becoming an adult, I've found myself gravitating towards working-class people. I like the blu…
I guess that’s what makes Trump “the peoples billionaire” but I don’t think it’s a class.
It’s more of a function of how much you embrace the norms of formal education and institutions. This defines who do you trust, what do you care about and how do you think.
I’m inclined to think that this is a personality trait. Surely, personality is shaped by the environment too.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#47Social mobility is very different than economic mobility. It's not hugely difficult to earn six figures in the US if you're committed, work hard, and pick a good field. Heck, I did it without any college. Social mobility is a different story. I was raised in a rural area, which is essentially a social class of its own. Since becoming an adult, I've found myself gravitating towards working-class people. I like the blu…
Ah, survivor bias
See my other replies, I'm aware of this, baby.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think it would be easier to become "filthy rich" for a poor person when they start in a nation with free healthcare and education. Poor people in USA have both free healthcare and education. If they're willing to fill-out some forms. Edit: Yes, contrary to the popular belief, poor people in USA do, in fact, get free health care and education.
> If they're willing to fill-out some forms. How does that part work in practise? Are these forms something someone from a poor uneducated background can actually realistically fill out? The way I see it many Americans I had the chance to talk with either take a gamble on their health or they spend not unsignificant time and energy to find their ways through the system. The first choice can turn out just fine, or (in…
>How does that part work in practice? Are these forms something someone from a poor uneducated background can actually realistically fill out?
Yes, at least in the 3 states where I know anything about how the systems work. It's all the same information you fill out to get your driver's license, kid's school lunch which, contrary to the prevailing trope around here, being poor does not make you too stupid to do. It's way less arcane than reporting loan interest on your taxes or trying to register a used car last registered by a dead guy.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
It could definitely be better, but I think there are more opportunities than most people realize. Joining the military is a big one; you get paid to learn a marketable skill, usually have your college tuition paid for, and you get to move out of your hometown. I knew a few people who joined because it was a quick way to get out of their shitty hometown where the options were sell drugs, or be poor. Knowledge of what'…
Joining the Military shouldn’t be the primary path to a better life; that seems incredibly dystopian.
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Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think it would be easier to become "filthy rich" for a poor person when they start in a nation with free healthcare and education. Poor people in USA have both free healthcare and education. If they're willing to fill-out some forms. Edit: Yes, contrary to the popular belief, poor people in USA do, in fact, get free health care and education.
> If they're willing to fill-out some forms. How does that part work in practise? Are these forms something someone from a poor uneducated background can actually realistically fill out? The way I see it many Americans I had the chance to talk with either take a gamble on their health or they spend not unsignificant time and energy to find their ways through the system. The first choice can turn out just fine, or (in…
Any poor person can walk into an urgent care or go to some place like ZocDoc and get help signing-up for Medicaid or Obamacare.
Likewise, any poor person can go to the local community college and tell the person at the desk that they want to enroll in some classes and they will be directed to the financial aide office where they will receive help to sign up for FAFSA [0] and Pell Grants [1].
All of these forms are printed in about 5 languages. There are people in the offices there to literally help the poor people write their own names on the forms.